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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:44 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
No but your prejudice shows through in every post like this. People want to vilify Monte for percivrd slight but you don't see the ones from the other side.


I'm usually one of the first to call bias on Bery. His initial post on this was about christian aid agencies bugging out after the quake. I read it as "True christians would have stayed and helped" not that "Only christians should have stayed"

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Müs wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
No but your prejudice shows through in every post like this. People want to vilify Monte for percivrd slight but you don't see the ones from the other side.


I'm usually one of the first to call bias on Bery. His initial post on this was about christian aid agencies bugging out after the quake. I read it as "True christians would have stayed and helped" not that "Only christians should have stayed"

Yeah, this. I disagree on an incredibly basic and fundamental level with virtually everything Beryllin posts, but you're (Riov) misinterpreting that particular nugget. Reminds me of the "Jews should have been destroyed by this point" debacle.

I find much of what Beryllin posts abhorrently wrong and incompatible with my own belief in the Christian God, but this seems to be a willful mistake in interpretation.


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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:59 pm 
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I find it a curious thing that I should start a thread about praying for the people of Haiti and it becomes controversial because I think that Christians should be there helping whenever possible, and thinking that it doesn't look right that church groups on the ground there are leaving rather than staying to help in whatever way they can. Run on sentence, I know.

I guess it's the evangelist in me. Perhaps I should strive to emulate Paul, who came to town, then moved on to another city to do what he could there. But then, some of the things Paul wrote are unpopular, too, even to some who claim Christ. *shrug* I dunno.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:10 pm 
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They are in my thoughts, donated a couple of gold coins through work which is going to the red cross. I hope they pull out okay.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:07 am 
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Perhaps religion shouldn't even be brought into a thread about helping a country struck by a natural disaster. Obviously religion is a subject no one is going to agree on. I thought that was a given.

My girlfriend and I are going to donate once we get our next paycheck. I pray for the people that have suffered or know people who've suffered. If I can help, I feel obligated from a humanitarian aid standpoint. It's not about what group of people it is, or what religion they have, or anything other than the fact that they are humans who are in great need of help.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:17 am 
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http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/ph ... above.html

Pictures from the air

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:18 pm 
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They're saying 200,000 might have died now. Just awful. Our company matches donations to the american red cross so I'm sending through them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:34 pm 
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SuiNeko wrote:
They're saying 200,000 might have died now. Just awful. Our company matches donations to the american red cross so I'm sending through them.


And of course those that initially died were the lucky ones, the ones that die in the days or weeks following are truly suffering beyond comprehension.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:39 pm 
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It's mind boggling. Putting the humanity of it aside for a second, imagine the logistics of trying to provide support at the scene.

no housing, road infrastructure is mostly useless, as many as a 100,000 bodies to dispose of, preferably humanely, and literally millions of people homeless, and without food and water.

It boggles the mind....


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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:10 pm 
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I understand that the port is fouled too (or was 2-3 days ago, hopefully clear now, or at least soon) which means everything must come in by air until they clear it. That's not good. At least the runway at their major airport survived in a condition to accept aircraft, or at least short-field aircraft.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:09 pm 
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The crane towers used to unload ships were heavily damaged in the quake, which means ships get unloaded the old fashioned way, by hand. Much slower that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:47 am 
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The church I attend announced that it will match any offerings that you designate to go to Haiti. Also trying to get supplies together to send there. I wish I could be a part of a medical force going down there.

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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:59 am 
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I saw that helicopters were flying in low and shoving food and water out to people below, rather than landing to off-load supplies. It's a sad commentary, but necessary for the safety of the crew, apparently. It's also hard to blame people who are starving and thirsty. It's just sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:51 am 
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It also helps the helicopter make more sorties, so it's not entirely negative.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:45 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
I'm really not huge on spending a bunch of money we don't have on a country whose recovery doesn't strongly impact global economics.

That said, I feel for the people of Haiti, they were already in a shitty country... now it's hell.


^ This

It is sad when post disaster donations actually raise the standard of living for the country's occupants.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:30 am 
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More shaking go on.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_earthquake

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – The most powerful aftershock yet struck Haiti on Wednesday, shaking more rubble from damaged buildings and sending screaming people running into the streets eight days after the country's capital was devastated by an apocalyptic quake.

The magnitude-6.1 temblor was the largest of more than 40 significant aftershocks that have followed the Jan. 12 quake. The extent of additional damage or injuries was not immediately clear.

Wails of terror rose from frightened survivors as the earth shuddered at 6:03 a.m. U.S. soldiers and tent city refugees alike raced for open ground, and clouds of dust rose in the capital.

The U.S. Geological Survey said Wednesday's quake was centered about 35 miles (60 kilometers) northwest of Port-au-Prince and 6.2 miles (9.9 kilometers) below the surface — a little further from the capital than last week's epicenter was.

"It kind of felt like standing on a board on top of a ball," said U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Steven Payne. The 27-year-old from Jolo, West Virginia was preparing to hand out food to refugees in a tent camp of 25,000 quake victims when the aftershock hit.

Last week's magnitude-7 quake killed an estimated 200,000 people in Haiti, left 250,000 injured and made 1.5 million homeless, according to the European Union Commission.

The strong aftershock prompted Anold Fleurigene, 28, to grab his wife and three children and head to the city bus station. His house was destroyed in the first quake and his sister and brother killed.

"I've seen the situation here, and I want to get out," he said.

A massive international aid effort has been struggling with logistical problems, and many Haitians are still desperate for food and water.

Still, search-and-rescue teams have emerged from the ruins with some improbable success stories — including the rescue of 69-year-old ardent Roman Catholic who said she prayed constantly during her week under the rubble.

Ena Zizi had been at a church meeting at the residence of Haiti's Roman Catholic archbishop when the Jan. 12 quake struck, trapping her in debris. On Tuesday, she was rescued by a Mexican disaster team.

Zizi said after the quake, she spoke back and forth with a vicar who also was trapped. But he fell silent after a few days, and she spent the rest of the time praying and waiting.

"I talked only to my boss, God," she said. "I didn't need any more humans."

Doctors who examined Zizi on Tuesday said she was dehydrated and had a dislocated hip and a broken leg.

Elsewhere in the capital, two women were pulled from a destroyed university building. And near midnight Tuesday, a smiling and singing 26-year-old Lozama Hotteline was carried to safety from a collapsed store in the Petionville neighborhood by the French aid group Rescuers Without Borders.

Crews at the cathedral recovered the body of the archbishop, Monsignor Joseph Serge Miot, who was killed in the Jan. 12 quake.

Authorities said close to 100 people had been pulled from wrecked buildings by international search-and-rescue teams. Efforts continued, with dozens of teams hunting through Port-au-Prince's crumbled homes and buildings for signs of life.

But the good news was overshadowed by the frustrating fact that the world still can't get enough food and water to the hungry and thirsty.

"We need so much. Food, clothes, we need everything. I don't know whose responsibility it is, but they need to give us something soon," said Sophia Eltime, a 29-year-old mother of two who has been living under a bedsheet with seven members of her extended family.

The World Food Program said more than 250,000 ready-to-eat food rations had been distributed in Haiti by Tuesday, reaching only a fraction of the 3 million people thought to be in desperate need.

The WFP said it needs to deliver 100 million ready-to-eat rations in the next 30 days, but it only had 16 million meals in the pipeline.

Even as U.S. troops landed in Seahawk helicopters Tuesday on the manicured lawn of the ruined National Palace, the colossal efforts to help Haiti were proving inadequate because of the scale of the disaster. Expectations exceeded what money, will and military might have been able to achieve.

So far, international relief efforts have been unorganized, disjointed and insufficient to satisfy the great need. Doctors Without Borders says a plane carrying urgently needed surgical equipment and drugs has been turned away five times, even though the agency received advance authorization to land.

A statement from Partners in Health, co-founded by the deputy U.N. envoy to Haiti, Dr. Paul Farmer, said the group's medical director estimated 20,000 people are dying each day who could be saved by surgery.

"TENS OF THOUSANDS OF EARTHQUAKE VICTIMS NEED EMERGENCY SURGICAL CARE NOW!!!!!" the group said in the statement. It did not describe the basis for that estimate.

The reasons are varied:

• Both national and international authorities suffered great losses in the quake, taking out many of the leaders best suited to organize a response.

• Woefully inadequate infrastructure and a near-complete failure in telephone and Internet communications have complicated efforts to reach millions of people forced from their homes.

• Fears of looting and violence have kept aid groups and governments from moving as quickly as they would like.

• Pre-existing poverty and malnutrition put some at risk even before the quake hit.

Governments have pledged nearly $1 billion in aid, and thousands of tons of food and medical supplies have been shipped. But much remains trapped in warehouses, or diverted to the neighboring Dominican Republic. Port-au-Prince's nonfunctioning seaport and many impassable roads complicate efforts to get aid to the people.

Aid is being turned back from the single-runway airport, where the U.S. military has been criticized by some of poorly prioritizing flights. The U.S. Air Force said it had raised the facility's daily capacity from 30 flights before the quake to 180 on Tuesday.

About 2,200 U.S. Marines established a beachhead west of Port-au-Prince on Tuesday to help speed aid delivery, in addition to 9,000 Army soldiers already on the ground. Lt. Cmdr. Walter Matthews, a U.S. military spokesman, said helicopters were ferrying aid from the airport into Port-au-Prince and the nearby town of Jacmel as fast as they could.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the military will send a port-clearing ship with cranes aboard to Port-au-Prince to remove debris that is preventing many larger aid ships from docking.

The U.N. was sending in reinforcements as well: The Security Council voted Tuesday to add 2,000 peacekeepers to the 7,000 already in Haiti, and 1,500 more police to the 2,100-strong international force.

"The floodgates for aid are starting to open," Matthews said at the airport. "In the first few days, you're limited by manpower, but we're starting to bring people in."

The WFP's Alain Jaffre said the U.N. agency hoped to help 100,000 people by Wednesday.

Hanging over the entire effort was an overwhelming fear among relief officials that Haitians' desperation would boil over into violence.

"We've very concerned about the level of security we need around our people when we're doing distributions," said Graham Tardif, who heads disaster-relief efforts for the charity World Vision. The U.N., the U.S. government and other organizations have echoed such fears.

Occasionally, those fears have been borne out. Looters rampaged through part of downtown Port-au-Prince on Tuesday, just four blocks from where U.S. troops landed at the presidential palace. Hundreds of looters fought over bolts of cloth and other goods with broken bottles and clubs.

USGS geophysicist Bruce Pressgrave said nobody knows if a still-stronger aftershock is possible.

"Aftershocks sometimes die out very quickly," he said. "In other cases they can go on for weeks, or if we're really unlucky it could go on for months" as the earth adjusts to the new stresses caused by the initial quake.

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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Aid is being turned back from the single-runway airport, where the U.S. military has been criticized by some of poorly prioritizing flights. The U.S. Air Force said it had raised the facility's daily capacity from 30 flights before the quake to 180 on Tuesday.



You know, you just can't win. No matter what you do, some armchair quarterback has to get their 2 cents in. I just finished (yesterday) a unit on runway construction and repair. I'd be willing to bet this "poor prioritization" had mainly to do with what the airfield can handle, but I doubt the critics have thought of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Somehow it feels to me that this new quake is just that - a new quake rather than an aftershock. Whichever, add this to the prior one plus the one that hit Grand Caymen, and that area has suddenly become quite active.


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 Post subject: Re: Haiti
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
It also helps the helicopter make more sorties, so it's not entirely negative.


I agree, nor did I mean to imply that it was entirely negative. I apologize to anyone I gave that impression to. Negative was not what was on my mind, sadness was and is. Those folks had so little, and now they have even less.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:31 pm 
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I was able to get my donation and match processed, after navigating our nightmare of a website. Really, I bet we'd get way more contributions if people didn't have to spend 10-15 minutes figuring out how to get the shitty, counter-intuitive donation website to process their donations.

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