Khross wrote:
The rule hasn't changed since any of you were in the second grade. Use your ears, not your eyes.
It's always good to get an historical view.
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| a or an? https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10648 |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | a or an? |
Ok - report writing. We use abbreviations a lot. Example: Installation of a Step Pool (SP) Next usage: Installation of a SP Is it a SP or an SP? |
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| Author: | Vladimirr [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Spelled out? Installation of a Step Pool. Abbreviated? Installation of an SP. Report pulling from some dynamic source so you can't tell the first letter's sound? Installation of (Step Pool/SP/etc...) |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, I've been screwing that up then. |
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| Author: | Lex Luthor [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
'a' versus 'an' is based on the pronunciation of the following words. So Vladimirr is correct. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, plus one for Vlad and Lex. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I was always told if the next word begins with a vowel it is an otherwise a. Why would it be an an for SP? |
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| Author: | Lenas [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Because you also use 'an' before abbreviations, not only before vowels. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
interdasting |
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| Author: | Vladimirr [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: I was always told if the next word begins with a vowel it is an otherwise a. Why would it be an an for SP? I always figured it was because of phonetics, specifically the sound of the first letter of the abbreviation. "SP" sounds like "ess pee" which starts with a vowel, so it gets "an". If it was "BP" it would be "a BP" since "BP" sounds like "bee pee" which starts with a consonant. "He had a BP of 120/80" wouldn't sound right with "an". |
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| Author: | Lenas [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
I can't argue that logic. Guess the abbreviation rule isn't set in stone. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yay English! |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Vladimirr wrote: Elmarnieh wrote: I was always told if the next word begins with a vowel it is an otherwise a. Why would it be an an for SP? I always figured it was because of phonetics, specifically the sound of the first letter of the abbreviation. "SP" sounds like "ess pee" which starts with a vowel, so it gets "an". If it was "BP" it would be "a BP" since "BP" sounds like "bee pee" which starts with a consonant. "He had a BP of 120/80" wouldn't sound right with "an". Yes, this. I always wanted to say "an SP" because of the sound "ess", but figured since it actually stood for Step, it should really be a SP for a step pool. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes the use of an is phonetic. |
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| Author: | Shelgeyr [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Also, the acronym rule gets tossed if the acronym is to be spoken as a word, which is simple enough in speech but a bit trickier in writing. 'A Statement Of Work' is 'an S.O.W.' to some, but 'a SOW' to others. If there's any doubt in my mind as to how the reader will pronounce it, I choose the "pronounce each letter" option and enforce it by inserting periods. |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
For "Step Pool" I'd probably use "a SP" with the understanding that anybody who is speaking that phrase and using the 2-syllable abbreviation "ess pee" instead of the two syllable full phrase "step pool" is a tool and can either adjust to "an" on the fly as he reads or sound like the tool he is if he's not bright enough to do so. |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Kaffis Mark V wrote: For "Step Pool" I'd probably use "a SP" with the understanding that anybody who is speaking that phrase and using the 2-syllable abbreviation "ess pee" instead of the two syllable full phrase "step pool" is a tool and can either adjust to "an" on the fly as he reads or sound like the tool he is if he's not bright enough to do so. /glare LOL - shortened to get to the point. I don't think anyone actually abbreviates "step pool". |
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| Author: | Khross [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
The rule hasn't changed since any of you were in the second grade. Use your ears, not your eyes. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
We are sorry, Dr Khross, but we arent used to English "rules" without exception so in the back of our minds we just think there must be one somewhere. Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Stathol [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Khross wrote: The rule hasn't changed since any of you were in the second grade. Use your ears, not your eyes. It's always good to get an historical view.
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Stathol wrote: Khross wrote: The rule hasn't changed since any of you were in the second grade. Use your ears, not your eyes. It's always good to get an historical view. Well, see, the key is that your ears need to be British. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Stathol: Fairly certain both the British and American pronunciations of "history" rely on the pseudo-fricative "H." Thus, "an" is inappropriate; unless you're trying to give is a lesson in l'histoire. |
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| Author: | Midgen [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Khross wrote: ... pseudo-fricative ... I googled this... I am disappoint... |
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| Author: | Vladimirr [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: a or an? |
Midgen wrote: Khross wrote: ... pseudo-fricative ... I googled this... I am disappoint... Not something Yosemite Sam would say under his breath? |
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| Author: | Aegnor [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Did you know that the word for a piece of clothing used in the kitchen when cooking, to prevent spilling food on regular clothes, was originally called a "napron". Of course when you say a napron out loud, it is indistinguishable from "an apron". Eventually the latter spelling took over. Incidentally I have always used "an SP". I've been corrected in the past, and it always annoyed me. I'm glad to hear I was correct. |
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| Author: | Stathol [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Huh. I'll be damned. That sounded suspiciously like a folk etymology, but you're exactly right. OED wrote: apron, n.
Pronunciation: /ˈeɪprən/ /ˈeɪpən/ Forms: ME naperonn, ME naprun(e, -onne, napperone, ME haprune, ME–15 napron, 15 aprone, ... (Show More) Etymology: < Old French naperon (modern French napperon ), diminutive of nape , nappe , table-cloth < Latin mappa table-napkin. The change of Latin m to French n is also seen in matta , natte , mespilum , nèfle ; the medieval Latin instances of napa , nappa for mappa are probably < French. In English, initial n has been lost by corruption of a napron to an apron . See a adj.(Show Less) |
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