The Glade 4.0

So I'm looking into schools in various cities. Many of the cities I have spent time in really aren't on my list. I was hoping to get some opinions here, if any of you have time, about the below cities. Some stuff I know I can research via the internet, but a couple firends have given me pretty valuable information that I wouldn't have thought to search for otherwise.

If you (or know friends with very credible opinions who) have lived anywhere in these cities, would you mind helping me out? I'm concerned with cities being overly political (either direction), cost of living, disaster-level weather, friendliness for raising a family, primary educational systems, and just any town that is an utter crap-hole. If there's anything you feel I should consider in addition to this, I welcome the feedback.

What I don't prioritize are downtown scenes, music scenes, or other entertainment scenes.

If you're willing to respond, I wouldn't mind PM's so that this doesn't end up in Hellfire due to the politics implications.

AL - Birmingham
AR - Little Rock
CA - San Diego
CO - Aurora
GA - Atlanta
GA - Augusta
GA - Atlanta
IA - Iowa City
IN - Indianapolis
KS - Kansas City
KY - Lexington
KY - Louisville
LA - Shreveport
MI - East Lansing
MI - Rochester
MI - Ann Arbor
MI - Kalamazoo
MN - Rochester
MN - Minneapolis
MO - Kansas City
MO - St. Louis
NC - Durham
NC - Chapel Hill
NC - Winston-Salem
ND - Grand Forks
NE - Omaha
NE - Omaha
NE - Reno
OH - Cleveland
OH - Rootstown
OH - Columbus
OH - Toledo
OH - Cincinnati
OH - Dayton
OK - Oklahoma City
PA - Philadelphia
PA - Philadelphia
PA - Hershey
PA - Philadelphia
PA - Scranton
PA - Pittsburgh
SC - Charleston
SC - Columbia
SC - Greenville
SD - Vermillion
TN - Johnson City
TN - Nashville
TN - Memphis
TX - Houston
TX - Lubbock
TX - Bryan
TX - San Antonio
TX - Galveston
TX - Houston
TX - Dallas
WA - Seattle
WI - Milwaukee
WI - Madison
WV - Huntington
WV - Morgantown

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The Dude abides.

My mom teaches in Cleveland Public, what do you want to know about it? (going on 20 years now wow)

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AL - Birmingham
Cost of living...nominal. More urban and thus more expensive than other cities in Alabama.
Weather...nominal. Biggest threats are tornadoes, which are relatively rare.
Educational systems...eh. Not its strong suit. Of course, Alabama. So...yeah.
Politics...largely split down racial lines. Mostly party-line Republican on the white side, party-line Democrats on the black. Not really overwhelming either way.
Crime...one of the ten deadliest cities in America.
Personally...I'm not a fan. It's dirty and crime-riddled and the air quality is utter shite.

GA - Atlanta
Cost of living...high.
Weather...hot and humid.
Educational systems...depends on where you live. College tuition for all (with decent grades) though.
Politics...typical Southern mix, like Birmingham above.
Crime...high.
Personally...way too damn crowded and dirty. Not a fan.

TN - Nashville
Cost of living...very reasonable. Not dirt-cheap, but Nashville proper and several of its suburbs are great values. Brentwood's expensive.
Weather...nominal. There was a giant **** 50-year flood a couple of years ago, so it should be safe for a while. Otherwise, the odd tornado, same as B'ham.
Educational systems...not bad.
Politics...sort of...conservative liberal? Liberally conservative? You've got a bunch of people who hate Obama and love God and guns, but are also cognizant of things like recycling and whatnot. It's about as centrist as I can imagine a place being.
Crime...I was never concerned for my safety or welfare during my time there.
Personally...it's my favorite place I've ever lived. Great atmosphere. It's the biggest small town in the world.

TN - Memphis
Cost of living...doesn't matter. Don't live there.
Weather...doesn't matter. Don't live there.
Educational systems...don't matter. Don't live there.
Politics...doesn't matter. Don't live there.
Crime...another murder capital of the country. Don't live there.
Personally...doesn't matter. Don't live there.

That's a very broad question about primary ed. Does he want to know their drop-out rate, their facilities, their curriculum, their test scores, their budget, how schools are financed, the availability of private schooling (and associated costs), or getting down to the neighborhood level, etc?

That said here's a run-down on Cleveland:
All Ohio public schools are financed by Property Taxes so if you are going to buy a house you'll be paying a chunk to the local school district every year.
Cleveland Public Schools are about 90% garbage. The buildings are mostly old and in extreme disrepair, they are currently replacing them at a pace of one building per year so literally in the next 75 years they'll all be updated so we can circle back to the beginning. The drop-out rate for public schools is very high. The test scores are inflated by the district and even with the inflation they are abyssmally low. The curriculum is to teach to the testing requirements. Many of their public schools no longer provide sports due to budget constraints. Private school alternatives exist in the form of Charter schools (if you get lucky) and a lot of Catholic schools which are fairly reasonably priced. There are pockets of excellent schools on the west side of the city and superb schools (which none of the above apply to) in the outer suburbs.

Cost of living in Cleveland proper is absurdly low but with prices increasing the further out you move from the city until you hit farmland.
The public transit system is a joke, but commuting is ridiculously easy.
The entire county has been a liberal stronghold for almost 30 years now while the surrounding counties are more right-leaning.
Weather is pretty moderate, we get some snow in the winter but it's not crazy. We don't have earthquakes, fires, floods, hurricanes, etc.
The only crap-hole that you should stay out of (don't even drive through it) is East Cleveland (city name, not eastern Cleveland).

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Not entirely true. Schooling for my kid is important since he will hit grade school about the time I matriculate.

Edit: It's not a question asking for a whole lot of specifics, Hop. Your answer was pretty good. I'm mostly looking for general opinions. That's pretty close to how I would describe Tucson's schools, but there happens to be a lot of choice with respect to non-city district schools.

I have a list of about 60 places and I'm asking a lot of people. There's been a lot of overlap of opinions I've received so far and as a result am bumping some up on my list and crossing others right the crap off.

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The Dude abides.

Seattle Proper:
* High cost of living
* Extremely left leaning politics (on par with the Bay Area in California)
* Expensive housing
* Horrible traffic
* Fairly bike friendly ($500m worth of new paths/trails in seattle proper over the next few years) if you don't mind the weather
* Crime is fairly typical for a large city
* Weather is "Seattle": Lots of cloudy and sometimes rainy days, but when the sun comes out, it is a spectacular place. Temperatures are mostly moderate.

If the suburbs or rural areas are an option the politics become less specific, schools are better (less inner city type problems), housing and cost of living is still high, but not as much. Traffic still sucks in the burbs, but there isn't much crime.

Re-posting from PM with edits: Obviously schools vary vastly across school districts even in a city, so do your homework there.

T

KY - Lexington

Good schools, city was expanding last time I was living there (~15 years) so cost of living was high. Traffic is a bear, (no major highways through town, so you're at best taking New Circle Road --not an actual highway to get circumnavigate town. City is arranged like a wheel with a strange 6 lanes In/2 lanes out in the mornings and 6 lanes out/2 lanes in in the evenings. IIRC its a fairly catholic area but tons of protestant evangelical churches here.

KY - Louisville
HATE driving through Louisville. traffic is nearly always ugly. never actually lived there but its been revitalized quite a bit. Still, its an industrial town, not a college town.


MI - Ann Arbor
Very much a college town. Lot of academics but Michigan's general economy is in the toilet and not projected to bounce back for quite a while. The east side of Michigan is especially poorly off, but UMICH is still an awesome school (this coming from someone who went to their in-state rival) Weather isn't too bad since you're on the east side of the state you get less snowfall than the west. Still, Ann Arbor is more dependent on the university than anything else, so with that in mind, its a college economy, not a manufacturing economy and as such the schools will be a couple of notches higher; the university employed people put a higher premium on funding local schools. Socially liberal, economically conservative area. I THINK they still have the annual Hash Bash here.


MI - Kalamazoo
West side of Michigan is not as bad as the east. (My parents live in Battle Creek ~ 20 minutes away, and very similar town) Eh. Kind of lackluster, but MUCH smaller than any of the other places you've mentioned. Home of WMU, but not really a college town. Its Michigan so gets its fair share of snow, but not as much as you're probably imagining. Its pleasant enough, but wouldn't be my first choice. Lot of protestants-- the area is very Dutch. (Including myself)

OH - Cincinnati
Where I'm living now. I actually like it quite a bit. City is bouncing back right now. so good time to move here. East and west parts of town are more affluent. Central parts of the city go from great->don't go out at night in the span of 2-3 blocks and there are some very very poor communities here where >95% of students are on public food assistance, as well as some public schools in affluent areas that have some of the best public schools in the country. Still, I actually like the town, not the easiest place to get around but there are several highways that get you in and out of the city. If you have allergies though, you may want to stay away. VERY high allergen counts here. Cinci is a Corporate town more than anything. Less manufacturing, more corp HQ. Its a very Roman Catholic area.

OH - Dayton
Never lived here but the town is ALWAYS under construction. Highways in and out of town have never NOT been under construction in the 15 years I've been driving through here on a semi-regular basis (back and forth to Michigan)



WV - Huntington
Home of Marshall university, its still not really a college town, more of an industrial town. Lot of drugs, crummy schools. Cost of living is pretty low, especially in outlying areas, but really not worth it. Economy is pretty depressed in the area though Ashland Oil is nearby and like all petroleum companies is at least doing well, but AK Steel, some of the other major employers are all dumping people left and right. To make matters worse, it has one of the highest cancer rates in the country presumably due to its abysmal air quality and the awful water quality. Huntington/Ashland/Ironton tri-state area typically ranks one of the worst places in the country to live. I lived in and around here for 11 years. Run. Run far. Don't stop running. That major slurry spill into the West Virginia rivers? Hit here. Ton of religious fundamentalists here, mostly baptist & Pentecostal and various evangelical spinoffs. Church politics seems very fractious here. Not a lot of ethnic diversity.

Can't belive I skipped over East Lansing.

Ok. I *LOVED* Living in East Lansing (Okemos, just outside it actually) Cost of living is higher than some places but still not anywhere close to a big city. Okemos and East Lansing have some of the best public schools in the country. Traffic is easy. East Lansing is a college town, hands down. Get a bit away from MSU and there are some great places to live. Stay away from Lansing. (Lansing/East Lansing are separate in name and character, but you'd never know you switched cities just driving through them) Driving around is easy, and even when weather is rough they know how to handle snow and ice. Roads are well maintained and straight. Not much in the way of hills, but MSU campus is GORGEOUS -- one of the prettiest campuses I've ever been to. Loved going to school walking by the Red Cedar. Can't say enough good things -- very diverse area, you'll find lots of people to associate with no matter what your religious or political affiliation. Some good museums and theaters nearby. Away from campus, at least to the east, crime is virtually non-existent. Certainly no violent crime. Student body can be pretty raucous and has been known to flip cars and burn couches after major ball games. Dont live right next to the university-- 2-3 miles away is more than safe. MSU/East Lansing has an excellent bus system, but MSU's parking is crap.

One downside: MSU is an Agricultural school and some areas are down wind.. About 1-2 weeks out of year when they fertilize the fields or the fields thaw.... ew.

My sister lived in Madison WI for about 5 years (just left last year). The town is Seattle-Liberal, very family friendly but expect pressure to do things the 'green' way (bike to work, etc) . High cost of living, but growing. Lot of nasty cold weather though.

KS - Kansas City - I absolutely love Kansas. The people, the land, the people. I have not spent any significant time in Kansas City.
MO - St. Louis - Driving through St. Louis always give me a strong "this is a dump" vibe. Never lived there.
NC - Chapel Hill - Very quiet, very nice little town. All must submit to and serve UNC.
NE - Omaha - Lived in Plattsmouth outside of Omaha for 4 years until I was 6. Very fond memories, but from a child's perspective.
OK - Oklahoma City - Awesome. Dry.
PA - Philadelphia - Dump.
TN - Nashville - Neat town to visit. Seems like it is growing. Very nice people.
WA - Seattle - Nice, very liberal. Situated in a very nice area if you like the outdoors.
WV - Huntington - Stay out of WV. The coal industry is dying and it's taking WV down with it. And it doesn't have very far to go. The population is amazingly fat, poorly educated, and generally unhealthy from what I have seen.

Never been to Kansas, but my Brother once lived there, and said about it...

"You can look further and see less than anyplace on the planet".. obviously an exaggeration, but coming from someone who grew up around mountains, lakes and rivers, it's a pretty flat place.

San Diego

One thing about the city is that everything is pretty spread out. You could speak to anyone from Oceanside to San Ysidro and they'd all say they're from San Diego, even though that's about 60 miles of coast in between them. My current commute is nearly 60 miles round trip every day.

• Politics - Left leaning younger demographic, right leaning older. Mayorship swings back and forth but historically has been mostly Republican. Mostly people will keep opinions to themselves unless you decide to start up the discussion.

• Cost of Living - Lower than SF and LA, higher than where you are now.

• Disaster Weather - What's that? I mean, I guess there are some Earthquakes, but very few and far between. We had a 5.3 a couple of weeks ago that I didn't even feel.

• Friendliness - Generally all-around very mellow people. It can get rowdy downtown when people are clubbing but you wont be around that, plus that happens everywhere.

• Education - Highly dependent on the area you settle down in. North County (Del Mar, Solana Beach, Encinitas, Oceanside, Rancho Bernardo) is probably going to be both where you want to settle and where you'd find the best schools, public or private.

St. Louis
Major politics is the struggle between black Democrats and white Democrats.
Cost of living is low, like any other midwestern city. The cost of living is a fair bit higher than rural southern areas.
Disaster-level weather: Seasonal tornadoes and occasional flooding of the Mississippi river.
St. Louis is frequently praised as an excellent place to raise children.
Primary educational system depends on where you go. The city itself is having problems. The suburban areas are pretty good.

Washington University has very strong science and technology programs. The greater St. Louis area also has quite a large volume of biomedical and agricultural research firms. I believe many of them offer tuition reimbursement for graduate degrees.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I'd expect the public school situation to be about the same in all the true cities on your list.

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Should also mention that Michigan has an Air Force to rival most industrial nations, and it's comprised entirely of Mosquitos

MI - East Lansing, A **** zoo and you are in danger of random funiture fires

MI - Rochester, Good town, higher cost of living but it is nice. The schools are fine, hell two of the high schools are in the top 15 in the state. That being said, if you are going to be in Rochester, there are other places near by that are just as good if not better that won't cost as much. Rochester is also a heavy traffic area, Oakland U is damn near in the middle of it all and at times the traffic is horrid. If you look at a map of Oakland County, I-75 runs past just about every good place to live. My kids are in Brandon Schools and I **** love it. From the early education to the high school are all very good. What I am sayin here is that if you are going to be in Rochester, there are lots of local options for you. And I run a D&D game one Saturday every month.

MI - Ann Arbor, I don't know much about the town.

MI - Kalamazoo, Roophus lived there I believe. I know nothing.

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Raell Kromwell

Dayton's a decent area. Disaster-level weather is limited to infrequent tornadoes and occasional (once every 2-3 years) power disruption from a snow or thunder storm. It's a nice area to raise kids in, I gather. Quality of primary schools varies widely from town to town in the greater metro area. Parts of Dayton and a couple of the surrounding towns are rough areas that drag Dayton's crime statistics down. Weather is on the cold side in the winter but the warm side in the summer. Ohio does still hold onto all 4 seasons, though its residents love to lament that they arrive unpredictably and in schizophrenic orders. Having lived in New England, I tell them they're not special in that regard.

Cost of living is a bit cheaper than the national average, dropping even lower the further out into the rural areas you're willing to go. Long-term construction on the limited access highways downtown make traffic in certain locations predictably slow and/or dense, but Dayton's no LA for routine **** parking lot jams. Politically, Dayton's county runs blue while the surrounding counties run red. It's probably considered a little more homophobic than average for its metropolitan size, but not violently so. If you want to PM (or reply) with the schools you're looking at, I can make more specific observations about the most proximal towns and commutes.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Of the towns on your list, I've only lived close enough to Philly and Aurora to have an opinion.

Philadelphia, PA - Would not recommend. Summer weather is hot & humid; winter weather is cold & wet with heavy snow (seriously, wet snow weighs like a million times as much as fluffy snow) and both conditions are just that much worse when you're in a densely-populated city. Crime is pretty high, and worst of all ... you're way too close to the Jersey Shore

Aurora, CO - One of the cleaner, more affluent Denver suburbs. We get our dog days in the summer but they're generally shorter & milder than what you'd find on the East Coast. Winters are mostly just a lot of dry, cold days with typically 1 or 2 winter storms per season. Crime's not so bad here. If you move to Colorado, don't watch Batman movies on opening night and watch out for "entire state is on fire" alerts.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you anything about the schools or political vibe of either location. I did my K-12 years in New England and never had any kids, and I'm fairly apolitical.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

Cost of living: Above average to High.

Disaster-level weather: See comments about Milwaukee

Friendliness for raising a family: Nice town, really nothing to worry about friendliness wise.

Primary educational systems: Good.

If there's anything you feel I should consider in addition to this: Full of a bunch of hippies and tree-huggers. Also super, super liberal. I don't want to make this all politically-negative, because maybe you like liberal. If you do, Madison is the place to be. It really stands apart from the rest of the Midwest. Not sure how the heck we ended up with a city like that smack dab in the middle of cow country, but it's a colder version of California.

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Cost of living: Below average.

Disaster-level weather: Very rare, although it can get profoundly cold for a stretch. Summers get up a couple days in the nineties, but by October or as late as April you are gonna see some snow.

Friendliness for raising a family: Pretty decent. The further west you go (Greenfield, West Allis, New Berlin) you end up in the nicer suburbs. Even if you're out in Waukesha County, downtown Milwaukee isn't that far away. Lots to do for the kiddies. I wouldn't recommend living east of, say, 60th street unless you're on the south side. I have two sisters east of there, and they're both getting the heck out. Avoid the north side altogether, unless you're up out of the city in Cedarburg or something.

Primary educational systems: As in any city, it varies. All of the suburbs within Milwaukee County are in the same school district, but they vary in quality.

If there's anything you feel I should consider in addition to this: It's a very diverse city. Lots of different people coming from different backgrounds, but pretty balanced overall. You've got pretty much anything you need that you could get from a really big city, still with a small town-ish feel. Whatever kind of neighborhood you want, whatever kind of folks you want to associate with, you should be able to find it.

Coming from a Milwaukee->Florida transplant who is surrounded by New Yorkers... people are much nicer in Wisconsin. The whole Midwest, really, but Wisconsin is sort of over the top. Some people consider it creepy, or can't handle it. Like, you probably can't get through the grocery store without someone telling you half their life story. People hold doors for you and stuff; you'll see two people standing there waiting for the other one to go. It's a different culture, but a nice one.

If that sounds like something you'd like, you should still remember it gets really freaking cold there.

If you still are OK with that, it's a great place to live.

Plus you're in Packer country, which outweighs a lot of the downsides.

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Philly-
Entirely politically controlled by D in every walk of life but slowly starting to change
bad public schools, good - great public schools
Some very safe and professional areas to live that are expensive
some very hip, artsy, mostly safe areas to live in that are not expensive
very up and coming city
Mayor is currently the least-bad in a generation

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

You forgot wildfires, Lenas. Don't you also have a tsunami threat, or does that only go as far down as Long Beach?

Since the only city on the list that I've had much experience with are Madison (loved it, but it can be an overbearing place if you don't like liberals (well, progressives) or winter) and that was 35 years ago, that's about all I can add. It's funny, your list is like the polar opposite of places I would think of living.

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This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge

I can't recall that I've ever known us to be under a tsunami warning, but yeah I did forget about wildfires. Generally happens in the more remote or inland areas of the county.

Never had to contend with wildfires anywhere in the midwest. Tornados and snow is about it.