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| Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11036 |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
AKA: I suck at dealing with bureaucracies or it's no wonder why Sears is going out of business. Some of you might remember me mentioning how that before I bought the home I'm living in, the previous owners had stripped it of metal. Well, the bank did replace most of everything, but one thing they did not replace was the dryer vent pipe. I ended up just replacing it myself with one I bought from Home Depot. That was almost a year ago. Recently I was contacted by the city saying that I was actually required to fix this within a year of moving in and have it inspected to make sure it's up to code. To be perfectly honest, this is something I knew about when I bought the place and ended up forgetting about it. That's my fault and it's not what I'm complaining about. Anyway, I knew what I stuck in there probably wouldn't be up to code so I called Sears and asked them if they could send, you know, a professional out who knows the code and knows what needs to go in there and install it. This is where the foot-dragging started. After I'd prepaid they said a technician would call me on X day to set up an appointment. That day came and went with no call. I called them back the next day and they say someone will be there between 11 and 1 the following day. Again, nobody shows up, no call, nothing. I call them at 2:00 and now they say he'll be there between 3 and 5. He finally shows up at 5:45 and puts the pipe in, so I think I'm OK, well, aside from not having any sleep for my night shift that day. I call the city inspector to have it inspected and he comes out and says what they put in isn't up to code, saying I have to use a "rigid or semi-rigid metal pipe" and not just a fully flexible foil pipe. I'd sent Sears a copy of the requirements and asked at least a half dozen times if they were sure that this was up to code and they assured me it was. So I called them back and asked them to come back out and fix it. First they want the inspection report. I send that, and it takes three phone calls and a week before they'll even address the issue. First they claim they never received it, two days later they claim the owner hasn't read it yet, then two days later they say they'll send the people to come back and fix it, but only if I look up exactly what's needed and buy it ahead of time for him to install. Funny, I thought you were supposed to be the expert, that's why I'm paying you. I figure it's not worth fighting about so I just spend the $20 and buy the stuff. I call to tell them I've bought the materials. Once again, they say someone will call to set up an appointment. This call never comes either. I call them back the next day (I actually call them several times and they never pick up the phone, I figure they might be screening me so I borrow a friends' cellphone and they pick up right away.) Now they say that their technician isn't able to install a semi-rigid vent pipe, they can only install the foil one, so he's not going to come out. Yeah, thanks for telling me this like two **** weeks after I sent you the inspection report explaining everything and going out and buying all this crap. I demand they refund me the install fee since they didn't actually put in anything of value. They refuse to do that. I just tell them I'm going to call my credit card company and charge it back and hang up. I'm now in possession of a nice letter from corporate threatening that if I don't drop the dispute, they're going to drag me through the credit card arbitration process where they claim that I'll have to pay the costs of the arbitration and all their fees if I lose, that they'll report it out on my credit, and also vaguely threatening to contact the police and have me arrested on fraud charges for chargebacking after their technician came out and installed it. I have the inspection report saying the installed pipe fails to pass code and what needs to go in there, I have pictures of what they put in and some instructional pictures from the city of what needs to go in. The inspector also gave me his phone number and offered to talk to them about what's wrong with it if they call him. I'm pretty sure I'm safe if they do decide to come after me, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this. Is this particular arbitration board extremely hostile to consumers? Are they just going to rubber stamp Sears' claim and make me pay for everything? |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Don't know about that, but you won't be arrested for what amounts to a civil dispute. Do you have a work order request from the original? If it says anything on there about meeting code, you will win. If it does not, you'll probably win. Contractors are supposed to do things to code. It's why they have a license. OH!! Threaten to file a complaint with the license board. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd imagine they are hoping very hard you will just believe them. When, I worked hospitality, I was always told to be careful with cards because charge backs are overly biased in the favor of the card holder |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You hired them to install something up to code. They failed to do that. Sears is fully liable for all expenses from that point. They are hoping you are too naive to know that. Write Sears another letter. Inform them that they will be reimbursing you for all expenses you've incurred as a result of their inability to comply with building code. Inform them that you know how to file fraud charges. Inform them that there will be no arbitration, and that failure to comply will result in a fraud report and, if you can demonstrate enough expenses, a lawsuit. This is not a credit card issue, this a contractor's responsibility issue. If Sears doesn't like it, they can exit that industry. |
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| Author: | Jasmy [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
My only question is...why are you using Sears to do a contractor's work? They are barely able to deliver and hook up a washer and/or dryer! |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
I actually called an HVAC company first, they told me they don't really do things related to appliance installations and I should call an appliance installer instead, because this is something that needs hooked up when a dryer is installed. There's nothing wrong with the dryer, the only issue is I need the pipe that exhausts the hot air to the outside installed. The building code here requires a rigid metal pipe, according to the inspector the flexible foil thing is a fire hazard because dust and lint can get trapped in it. |
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| Author: | Jasmy [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Use the Yellow Pages...friends...Angies List...something, and find a contractor if you are unable to install a rigid dryer vent line yourself. Man up! You are a young man... I'm a 60 year old woman and could install a dryer vent myself with no help. Please learn how to do a few things yourself! |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
I can certainly put it in myself, I had one in there before that I installed myself. What I don't know is if it will meet the building code with all its nitpicky requirements if I do it myself. That's why I called someone. The inspector was seriously measuring the pipe length, gage of the metal, what kind of clamp and elbow joint was in use, etc. The odds of me missing something if I do it myself are pretty high. |
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| Author: | Midgen [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
This sounds like way more stress than its worth Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Yeah, no ****. I didn't think the stupid vent pipe was going to be a big deal either, that's why I forgot about it. Unfortunately, the city sent me a notice saying I have 1 month left to prove I've fixed it and if I don't get something approved installed there's a huge fine involved and the city will then take me to court to get a performance order. What annoys me is I never actually paid the $50 to have the inspector out to inspect the pipe I put in myself, maybe it would have passed. I thought I was going for the safe option and getting a sure thing put in and now I'm in this mess. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Is this what you are using? |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's what Sears installed that isn't up to code in his area. Which, frankly, I'm flabbergasted by. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
... That's not what they used. Semi-rigid flex tube should pass code. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Speedi-Produ ... c=17588969 The above is what they used. |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oh, right. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
And, yes, that is a fire hazard, particularly since the polyester breaks down under the general exhaust heat of a dryer over time. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
So after giving this a bit more thought, here is where you stand. That whole, "We'll install what you purchase," business was Sears trying to evade responsibility for meeting code. The problem for them is it doesn't work that way. If they can't meet code, they don't get to perform the installation and charge you money. That's the law. Report Sears. I can not stress this enough. File a report with the Better Business Bureau. Include the threat they sent you with your report. Contact Sears one more time. Inform them that they have been reported for false advertising and for failing to perform work in compliance with local building code. Do not threaten them. Do not ask for any money. Just tell them that you've reported them. (This is a retraction of my previous advice). |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I concur with Coro. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: So after giving this a bit more thought, here is where you stand. That whole, "We'll install what you purchase," business was Sears trying to evade responsibility for meeting code. The problem for them is it doesn't work that way. If they can't meet code, they don't get to perform the installation and charge you money. That's the law. Report Sears. I can not stress this enough. File a report with the Better Business Bureau. Include the threat they sent you with your report. Contact Sears one more time. Inform them that they have been reported for false advertising and for failing to perform work in compliance with local building code. Do not threaten them. Do not ask for any money. Just tell them that you've reported them. (This is a retraction of my previous advice). I didn't buy or have any input over what they initially installed. They brought that with them and put that in. It was after that when it failed the inspection and I complained that they claimed that if I were to buy whatever would pass code, they would send the technician back and install it. Then, after I'd gone out and bought it, they didn't show up and I just got radio silence from them where they wouldn't answer my calls. When I finally got through by using someone else's phone so they couldn't screen me out, they went back on their initial promise and then claimed their techs are not able to install semi-rigid pipe, they are only able to install the foil pipe. In my opinion, this is a BS excuse on their part because they don't want to pay to send the guy back out here. What really annoys me is they had me buy the replacement with my own money and then just stiffed me after I'd already bought it. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
If their techs are only able to install something that does not meet code, they are not allowed to perform the installation in the first place. That is the law. Sears has done more than simply violate good business ethics. They have broken the law. Sears charged you money to install equipment in compliance with local building code. The installation then failed inspection. The moment Sears chose not to return to your house and correct the mistake at no additional cost to you, or to refund your money, you became the victim of fraud. Sears is not going to correct the installation. Sears is not going to refund your money. Sears thinks they can bluff you into dropping this. Once Sears gets a phone call from a regulatory body that they are facing fraud charges, that all changes. The last thing Sears wants is official scrutiny. See, you're not the only person that Sears has done this to. You're just the only one that had to have an inspection. Once the wrong person figures out how many of these pipes Sears has installed, they will be facing a six figure fine. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: If their techs are only able to install something that does not meet code, they are not allowed to perform the installation in the first place. That is the law. Sears has done more than simply violate good business ethics. They have broken the law. Sears charged you money to install equipment in compliance with local building code. The installation then failed inspection. The moment Sears chose not to return to your house and correct the mistake at no additional cost to you, or to refund your money, you became the victim of fraud. Sears is not going to correct the installation. Sears is not going to refund your money. Sears thinks they can bluff you into dropping this. Once Sears gets a phone call from a regulatory body that they are facing fraud charges, that all changes. The last thing Sears wants is official scrutiny. See, you're not the only person that Sears has done this to. You're just the only one that had to have an inspection. Once the wrong person figures out how many of these pipes Sears has installed, they will be facing a six figure fine. Well, I just filed the complaints and sent the letters. It looks like Sears subcontracted the install out to another company, so I put them both on the complaints. It'll be interesting to see if/when I get any kind of response and if they both end up blaming each other. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Update: Well, I just got a check from Sears for all the expenses I incurred because of this, including the reinspection fee and for all the extra **** I bought that they refused to come out and put in. So, good news on that front. The only sticking point is, included in the amount on the check they sent me was a reimbursement for the initial installation fee, which I'd already disputed and had credited back to me by my credit card company, weeks ago. I told them this on the phone when they called me and said they were refunding me, as well. So my question is, if I deposit this check, can they come after me for fraud since I'll have essentially gotten that part of the refund twice? |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Xequecal wrote: Update: Well, I just got a check from Sears for all the expenses I incurred because of this, including the reinspection fee and for all the extra **** I bought that they refused to come out and put in. So, good news on that front. The only sticking point is, included in the amount on the check they sent me was a reimbursement for the initial installation fee, which I'd already disputed and had credited back to me by my credit card company, weeks ago. I told them this on the phone when they called me and said they were refunding me, as well. So my question is, if I deposit this check, can they come after me for fraud since I'll have essentially gotten that part of the refund twice? They won't - they don't want to deal with you anymore about this. But it's still not right to take the money. Deposit the check, and reimburse them for the amount in question. It is not unjust to cash the check. Their mistake should not withhold the funds you are legitimately owed. But reimburse them quickly. |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oh, and congratulations. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yay. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Anyone have experience with credit card disputes? |
Arathain Kelvar wrote: Xequecal wrote: Update: Well, I just got a check from Sears for all the expenses I incurred because of this, including the reinspection fee and for all the extra **** I bought that they refused to come out and put in. So, good news on that front. The only sticking point is, included in the amount on the check they sent me was a reimbursement for the initial installation fee, which I'd already disputed and had credited back to me by my credit card company, weeks ago. I told them this on the phone when they called me and said they were refunding me, as well. So my question is, if I deposit this check, can they come after me for fraud since I'll have essentially gotten that part of the refund twice? They won't - they don't want to deal with you anymore about this. But it's still not right to take the money. Deposit the check, and reimburse them for the amount in question. It is not unjust to cash the check. Their mistake should not withhold the funds you are legitimately owed. But reimburse them quickly. Call it punitive damages for being dickholes. |
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