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Time Travel to Kill Hitler?
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3223		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Müs [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Time Travel to Kill Hitler?
How bout Roosevelt?
Spoiler:
Image
Author:  Raell [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:21 pm ]
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Red X
Author:  Shelgeyr [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:50 pm ]
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Here's what Mus was trying to link.
Author:  Aethien [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:48 pm ]
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That's hilarious. But, you know, I feel just like that guy does, here in Southern California. So much so, that I even have a name for that behavior: They get a Special "******* Dispensation" when they buy a Beemer or a Benz. Allows them to do whatever they **** they want, and be an ******* about it.

Great cartoon, though, thanks.
Author:  Micheal [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:04 pm ]
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Go Theodore!
Author:  Vindicarre [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:40 am ]
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I guess Teddy must've thought they were the "wrong type".

"Someday we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty, of the good citizen of the right type is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type." -Theodore Roosevelt
Author:  Micheal [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:35 am ]
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Vindicarre wrote:
I guess Teddy must've thought they were the "wrong type".

"Someday we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty, of the good citizen of the right type is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type." -Theodore Roosevelt



Eugenics was a popular movement back then. The concepts have some merit in theory, it is the practice in which they fail memorably. Of course the actions of the National Socialists in Germany did more to discredit the science of human husbandry than any million moralists ever could have.

TR wasn't being racist in that letter from 1913, he was advocating the forced sterilization of convicted degenerates. Of course the word degenerate itself is open to so many different meanings.

He wasn't a perfect man and he held some controversial opinions. It was also a world Pre-WWI much less Pre-WWII. Humanity has learned a lot in the years following his time.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:31 am ]
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The concepts of eugenics have some merit in theory, as long as you believe the individual should be subverted in the interests of society, but hey, as long as you are the right color have the right IQ, aren't too old, or infirm and don't have the wrong take on what's moral according to society-at-large, or are willing to be sacrificed at the altar of "Society", it's a great idea! It's too bad those darned National Socialists over in Germany mucked it up for everyone else, right?

Moralists trying to discredit it? Au contraire, it was the "moralists", of which Teddy was an outspoken leader who were among the greatest proponents of eugenics.

No, Good ol' Teddy wasn't being directly racist in that letter; his outspokenness in his belief in a "Hierarchy of the Races" takes care of that. As to Roosevelt supporting the forced sterilization of only "convicted degenerates", here's the full text of the letter. Nowhere do I see "convicted degenerates", but I do see moral and physical criteria he'd like to establish:

"My dear Mr. Davenport: I am greatly interested in the two memoirs you have sent me. They are very instructive, and, from the standpoint of our country, very ominous. You say that these people are not themselves responsible, that it is "society" that is responsible. I agree with you if you mean, as I suppose you do, that society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind. It is really extraordinary that our people refuse to apply to human beings such elementary knowledge as every successful farmer is obliged to apply to his own stock breeding. Any group of farmers who permitted their best stock not to breed, and let all the increase come from the worst stock, would be treated as fit inmates for an asylum. Yet we fail to understand that such conduct is rational compared to the conduct of a nation which permits unlimited breeding from the worst stocks, physically and morally, while it encourages or connives at the cold selfishness or the twisted sentimentality as a result of which the men and women ought to marry, and if married have large families, remain celebates or have no children or only one or two. Some day we will realize that the prime duty the inescapable duty of the good citizen of the right type is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type." - Theodore Roosevelt to Charles B. Davenport, January 3, 1913.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention that he wasn't using the term "degenerates", as is common today, to refer to those who are of the most heinous kind of criminals (rapists and child molesters, for example), but merely referring to those who are below a standard of physical, mental, or moral quality deemed high enough .


"I wish very much that the wrong people could be prevented entirely from breeding; and when the evil nature of these people is sufficiently flagrant, this should be done. Criminals should be sterilized and feebleminded persons forbidden to leave offspring behind them. The emphasis should be laid on getting desirable people to breed.” Theodore Roosevelt [bold added by me]

I would have never taken you, Micheal, for being an eugenics apologist, but then, people will go to great lengths to support what they have constructed.
Author:  Micheal [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:26 am ]
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As I said, the practice of eugenics has been pure failure. The theory, on a personal level, is to improve your offspring's overall chance at health and well being by not having children with partners with known physical and mental defects. Unfortunately, people see defects based on subjective personal belief and not objective factors.

Of course, once you see what the practice of animal husbandry has done to many of the pet and food animals, you begin to realize that the 'science' is too young to take chances messing with people.

Is this a hot button for you Vindicarre? The brush you wish to tar me with is inappropriate. I am not an apologist for eugenics as practiced, just believe that the theory has some merit, like many other theories that sound good but don't pan out in practice.

Unfortunately, the theory is grabbed and exploited by people with political and racist goals, another reason why the theory should not be tested at this immature point in history.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:23 pm ]
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Eugenics on a personal level... :lol: That's called dating, and usually doesn't involve state-sponsored forced sterilization, infanticide and murder.
Is it a hot-button issue for me? Nah, no more than any other form of state-sponsored forced sterilization, infanticide and murder.
One would think it would be a hot-button issue for you, though, which is why your defense of it comes as such a surprise.
Author:  shuyung [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:22 pm ]
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This is gaining all of the hallmarks of needing to be in Hellfire, I think.
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