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Question on California law?
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4554		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Question on California law?
Have a friend who is trying to figure out an awkward situation. She lives in a house with several roommates, and the wife of one of them moved out and then got a restraining order against the husband who still lives there.

The locks were changed, but the wife who left is planning to come over to the house today and demand entry.

She wants to know what she can do.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Get a lawyer. You can't rely on anonymous legal advise.

My opinion is (as long as you understand it's worth exactly what you're paying for it) that restraining orders are orders of protection and if the wife moves into contact with the husband he won't be guilty of infraction. It's the other way 'round where he can get in trouble. If he's the room mate and his wife isn't, she's out of luck.
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
He has two: one civilian and one military.

My friend, who happens to live there, does not.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a thought, if someone comes over and demands entry without any relevant and compelling reason, just refuse entry and call the cops if she makes a scene. She moved out, so take any belongings and pitch them to the curb.
Author:  Müs [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I would think that its a question of trespassing then since your friend doesn't have a restraining order. I don't know if the police will enforce a trespass order against an occupant.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm thinking that if the gal that's causing trouble isn't on any documentation as being a legal resident of the place, she's SOL.

Call Elmo and tell him to bring his gun.
Author:  shuyung [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
The wife is demanding entry to retrieve belongings? There should be a police escort, I would think. What exactly are your friend's concerns?
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
Her concerns are multiple.

First, she has been told by the leaseholder to not admit the woman.

Second, this woman is known for being a 'drama queen' and for not telling the truth if it is inconvenient.

Third, since she left, she is not considered resident there.

Forth, if this women is in front of the house, the man can not come home, or he will be in violation of the restraining order.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Personally, if I were the guy I'd not worry about it. A restraining order has to be enforced, the gal just can't get traction by setting him up.

Is this kid crap? It certainly sounds like it.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Some of the specifics are dependent upon the type of restraining order. There are ramifications to the non-resident's actions regarding both the restraining order and civil procedure. The situation is too complex to resolve adequately over an anonymous message board, as Taskiss stated. If the fourth concern were to be \come a reality, then the police should be contacted to escort her off the property, but he should deal with his attorney(s) to work out a plan of action.

A party not involved in the restraining order situation should deny admittance to anyone not a lease-holder and contact police if any threatening or unreasonable actions are taken by the non-lease holder.

This advise is freely given with the understanding that it is general, friendly advice and may be partially or wholly inaccurate regarding the unrevealed specifics of this situation.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's an interesting read:

http://blog.chs-law.com/2006/12/enforci ... order.html
Author:  shuyung [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
The leaseholder's instructions should take primacy. Does your friend work off-shift that would cause her to be home at some point when she would be the only resident on-site? Depending on how involved she actually wants to be in this situation, is there anything she's wanted to do that she could use as an opportunity to just not be around?
Author:  Müs [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
Squirrel Girl wrote:
Forth, if this women is in front of the house, the man can not come home, or he will be in violation of the restraining order.


I don't believe this is true. With a PPO, there is a reasonable expectation that you cannot force the person that the order is taken out on to break it.

Its kind of like a circle of protection in DnD. If you have "protection from evil 10' radius" on, and you use it to force a demon into a corner, if you willingly go within 10', the protection breaks ;)

She would be breaking the PPO by her own acts. I believe that the cops would tell her just that when she called them to enforce it.
Author:  Taamar [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
Squirrel Girl wrote:

Forth, if this women is in front of the house, the man can not come home, or he will be in violation of the restraining order.


I don't think that's so... else what keeps people with restraining orders from hanging around their ex's work so he either violates the RO of gets fired? Or waiting until he leaves home and camping on his lawn? I think the person filing the RE has a responsibility to avoid some places. A few years back a guy I know had an RO against a crazy ex and she kept going to his favourite places to force him out. Cops said 'If you know he's gonna be there stop going, or we'll call this a frivolous RO. We don't have time for your drama bullshit.'

I'll ask Tolyn to weigh in... he's a Cali cop and might have some insight.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's the think Taam/Ara; it's best just to get the police involved from the get-go so it doesn't become a he said/she said. He should call the local PD any time she shows up, when she shows up. It's basic CYA.
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
shuyung wrote:
Does your friend work off-shift that would cause her to be home at some point when she would be the only resident on-site?


This ^^

She works the evening shift, so she is home alone during the day.
Author:  Taskiss [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I don't think someone can ambush another and then claim protection.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
They can try, and thereby cause unnecessary headaches.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
He should have a copy of the restraining order. Have your friend read it and see if her blocking access to his work or home is covered. Sometimes it is. Otherwise, Taskiss said it first, lawyer up. Asking for a police escort may seem strange, but if they have time it may be the best bet.
Author:  Ladas [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
If the person isn't a resident of the domicile, they have no right do "demand" entry to the property.

Unless she has a court order allowing her to collect her possessions that might still remain, but then, as DE suggested, she should have a police escort.
Author:  shuyung [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Ladas wrote:
If the person isn't a resident of the domicile, they have no right do "demand" entry to the property.

Unless she has a court order allowing her to collect her possessions that might still remain, but then, as DE suggested, she should have a police escort.

You identify visually by avatars, don't you?
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heheh, I had to go look back to make sure it wasn't DE.
Author:  Tolyn [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
The conditions of a restraining order are usually pretty clearly laid out. Not to come within so many feet or yards of the protected party, their residence, or their work. Not to contact, annoy, or harass. Etc. Judges can modify the conditions to meet most situations (I have seen TROs where both parties still lived together or were neighbors). As she has moved out of the house and presumably established residency elsewhere, she has no legal right to demand entry into the house. If she shows up at the residence, call the police and ask them to admonish her for trespassing (they have to provide her the opportunity to leave first and then if she refuses, those with dominion and control of the house can make a citizen's arrest). You can also ask them to give her his attorney's business card and if she has any demands, to route them through his attorney. Every time she does something - calls, shows up, emails, etc. - I would document it and provide a copy of that documentation to his attorney.

From experience I can tell you that the California family courts are not male friendly. He needs to be smart, break all contact to the best of his abilities, work with and through his attorney, and do the very best he can to protect himself.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
Your friend needs to talk to a lawyer. I wouldn't rely on any advice here, other than that you can't show up somewhere in order to use a restraining order as a weapon against someone. Even then, however, like Tolyn said the courts can be very anti-male, and not just in California. The male roommate needs to take every precaution.
Author:  Jocificus [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question on California law?
I don't know the law in Cali, but here in Utah if you've moved out of a home for any amount of time you cannot return and demand entry. Even if you're married to the person living there. If you left a marital home, you can't return to get anything unless the spouse that still resides there allows you to do so.

Found this out when I was helping a friend leave her abusive husband. She had left about a week earlier, and a few people had gone back with her to help her get the few things she'd left behind. The husband showed up unexpectedly and called the cops. From then on we were only allowed to remove items from the home that he allowed us too.
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