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I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones big
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Author:  Tymoria Brightblade [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones big
Hey guys, I'm sorry I always seem to pop up around here only when I have problems, but I guess I just know there are a lot of folks here with thier heads on straight.

Today I found out that a co-worker of mine is a current victim of domestic abuse. She was temp help back in 08 and she got rehired for the same job this year by the new manager. She came to work today distraught and asked me to come with her to the back room. She was crying and trying to pull it together, but couldnt calm down to save her life. She wanted to go home, I asked what was wrong, I tried to lighten things up some and cheer her up, and then she told me why she was upset. She had almost called the cops on her boyfriend today and it wasnt the first time.

Apparently since I met her back in 08 he has been abusing her off and on and is currently on parole, for what offence I do not know, but if she does call the police, he will automaticly go to jail for a year and she has been hesitating. Its classic abused behavior, she is taking his guilt onto herself. If SHE calls the cops, he has to go to jail. It would be HER fault. I said HELL no it wouldnt, he's the prick that put himself in that position and dont you dare let him harm you if you can prevent it! Call the cops if he gets violent again and when he goes to jail it will be HIS fault.

This is my view though, and I know its not that simple for the victim and just telling her isnt the only way to get her free of this.

I had a thought, and I know it isnt necesarily the safest idea, but my guy and I have an open room we are looking to rent out. We need the money cause we are barely above water. She needs to be somewhere where he cant readily find her. My thought is to rent the room to her. That said, I know he could simply follow her home and then we have problems on our door step, but I cant let this go. I figure if I can get her to enact a restraining order to keep him away from her person, home and place of work, then even if he followed her home we could call the cops on him for simply showing his skeezy weasle face.

She's such a nice girl, shes quiet, kind, and for her age and 5 years older, she is very responsable. I just want to help this girl.

So my questions would be these:

1) can one who did not witness the abuse report it?
2) could said report send a NY parolee back to jail, or does it have to be a witness?
3) what further ideas do you guys think would be a good move if we did rent the room to her?
4) who wants to get in line to kick this slime ball's narrow arse? (unfortunately figurative here grrrr)
Author:  Micheal [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
1) Can you, yes, but it is hearsay and may not be taken seriously, i.e. not a priority. It will only be taken seriously in the immediate danger sense, it sounds like he is beating her right now, right this very minute.

2) ask a lawyer, maybe is the best I can do. The report alone is never enough, there has to be some evidence.

3) Don't rent the room to her. Don't rent the room to her. Don't rent the room to her.

I am not a psychiatrist, however, it sounds like typical abusive relationship Stockholm syndrome. Sounds like she isn't ready to leave the bum or she would have called the cops on him already. She may never be ready. She needs some serious counseling if she has let it get this far without kicking him out. She may be the nicest girl in the world and very responsible, but if she has a track record of letting men abuse her the odds are high than even if you get her free from him, she will pick another abuser and it will be that much closer to you. She needs counseling and lots of it. She also needs shelter where he cannot find her.
Try these people, http://www.safehorizon.org/
Or these people, http://www.johnnieshouse.com/index.htm
or these people http://www.usattorneylegalservices.com/ ... er-NY.html
or whatever battered woman's shelter you can find and trust.

4) Innocent until proven guilty and all we have is hearsay. We may consider you a reliable source Tym, but what you have is hearsay. Assuming what she told you is true and not horribly exaggerated, he doesn't deserve the beating, it gives him too much reward for being slime. Double tap and we're done.
Author:  Taskiss [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Until this co-worker wants to do something to save herself there's nothing that can be done. When she does want to do something, all she has to do is make a phone call.

At that point, I suggest you refer her to some woman's abuse programs rather than get involved yourself. Let those folks that know what to expect and are prepared to help her take over.

You don't need those problems brought into your home. It's potentially dangerous. You can find someone to rent the room that won't bring so much baggage.
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
As the others have said, you can not fix this. She has to make the move to leave on her own.

Do not rent to her at this time.
Author:  darksiege [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have to agree with the wisdom of the people above me.

This reeks of you and your man getting screwed big time and with no dinner or kind words.

If she is not going out of her way to get away from the abuse, there is nothing that you can do about it, without seriously jeopardizing your own well being.

You help her, psycho douchebag decides to bring the problem to you... psycho douchebag does something that causes you and your man the loss of property or causes injury.
Author:  Katas [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
I'd suggest checking out:

http://www.theduluthmodel.org/documents/PhyVio.pdf

http://www.theduluthmodel.org/duluthmodel.php

Isolation plays a big part in the abuse cycle.

An abuse victim is generally at their most vulnerable when they try to break free of the abuse. This is when the most violence, especially fatal violence, occurs.

I'd suggest getting this woman to a battered woman's shelter, where they have programs to file restraining orders and do the needed steps to ensure her safety.

Rent the room to someone else.

As Taamar would be likely to say "In the event of decompression, put on your own mask before helping others."
Author:  Kirra [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:02 am ]
Post subject: 
A PPO is only a few words published in the newspaper when it writes the article about your death at the hands of your abuser. It doesn't do much good till after the fact. And the abuser has no problem violating a PPO. You basically have to protect yourself. That being said...DO NOT rent to her. He will find her and bring violence to your house because he is angry she defied him. And sometimes it doesn't matter how fast the police get there...what if he shows up with a gun? Don't bring that into your life. Help her find a shelter and they are the professionals, they can help her.

Trust me on this one and the previous advice.
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Kirra wrote:
A PPO is only a few words published in the newspaper when it writes the article about your death at the hands of your abuser. It doesn't do much good till after the fact. And the abuser has no problem violating a PPO. You basically have to protect yourself. That being said...DO NOT rent to her. He will find her and bring violence to your house because he is angry she defied him. And sometimes it doesn't matter how fast the police get there...what if he shows up with a gun? Don't bring that into your life. Help her find a shelter and they are the professionals, they can help her.

Trust me on this one and the previous advice.


Also, no one has the right to police protection.

http://lawschool.courtroomview.com/acf_cases/10107-riss-v-new-york
Author:  Micheal [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Its a sick world out there.

What I hate about that story is that the jerk won. He may have gone to prison for 14 years, but he married his victim after he got out. They wrote a book and got a movie deal out of it.
Author:  LadyKate [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
All of the advice above is wise. Speaking from personal experience, she will not be free of this until she wants to be...and that will involve lots of professional counseling.

You could talk her into calling the cops and leaving him, but unless she is truly ready to be done with him and unless she has had psychiatric help, she will just go back.

Yes, she is a victim, but she also has a victim's mentality that requires professional help to change before she can get out of the cycle of abuse.

DO NOT RENT TO HER.

My new friend, Jane, is still grieving over the loss of her best friend of over 10 years who was murdered in January after she tried to leave her abusive husband. He shot her and then shot himself.

Pray for her, refer her to counseling and a women's shelter, be her friend, but don't invite her into your home...you'd be inviting not just her, but a lot of drama and danger as well.

It's not enough to get the person out of the situation physically. They have to remove themselves mentally and emotionally as well and that is just as hard to do as it is to quit any drug. It's an emotional/psychological addiction that she has to this guy so treat her as you would a heroin addict....refer her to help but don't set yourself up or put yourself in harms way.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
DO NOT rent her the room. One of two things will happen:

1) He will end up sleeping there

2) He will show up at your door with a 12 guage

Ensure that she calls the police tomorrow morning. In fact, the best thing you can do for her is refuse to talk to her until she calls the police.

If she is telling you about it but NOT calling the police one of two things is happening:

1) She is using you to vent and thereby relieve her emotional stress from the situation, feel better, and convince herself it is not that bad or

2) (highly unlikely but possible) she is lying about the whole thing

She needs to report this. It is not fair to either you or herself to use telling you as a substitute for reporting it.
Author:  Kirra [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:07 am ]
Post subject: 
The system also tells you they gave them 3 years....but that translates to 6 months and "poof" he is out and about. And, they promise to tell you, but that doesn't happen either.

The system is so screwed.
Author:  Vladimirr [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
Well, I hadn't planned to talk about this but your post struck a nerve. I'll keep this as short as I can. This all just happened last week and this is my first morning back in town.

My youngest sister's husband was a psycho drunk who physically abused her kids. My sister was the kind of person who trusted everyone and loved everyone and always gave everyone a second chance. She gave this guy a lot of chances, that's for sure. Even after emergency room visits, she always had a change of heart and tried to let the guy see his daughter. Everyone else could see that he was dangerous but it took a long time for her to see it.

About a year and a half ago, she was finally brave enough to move out and start the divorce process. She moved in with my oldest sister, and took the kids with her. He tried to get to her, so they got a restraining order against him. They also initiated charges for child endangerment which would have hopefully put him away or into an instituion for a long time. He ended up getting thrown in jail for violating the restraining order. The system takes so long to process things, he got out of jail on the restraining order violation, and the case for child endangerment had been delayed until January due to red tape.

Last Monday, he broke in, shot her and then shot himself. My niece was in the next bedroom, but thankfully she is alive, and my nephew was in school at the time. If my oldest sister or her husband were at their home, they would be gone right now too.

Restraining orders don't work.
The "system" doesn't work.
Taking someone into your home can potentially even be more dangerous for you or the people you love.

My best advice would be to convince her to report everything to the police so it's documented. Even if you can't convince her in one conversation, maybe over time it will start to make sense to her. You can talk to a lawyer, but it's pretty hard to report abuse for someone else when they aren't willing to admit it - my family can attest to that. In addition, if this guy really is showing the warning signs of being violent, she should probably find a home for women to take shelter. I never, ever, ever ever thought this could happen in my family, but it can happen to anyone.

I'm totally not ready to tell people this story yet, but eventually I hope that my sister's tragedy will be able to at least help some other girls down the road. Maybe your friend will be that girl.
Author:  Hopwin [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
One of the judges in my county is the father of a good friend. When I was trying to help someone through similar circumstances he told me that his father always tells battered women that if they want to live then they need to move across the country, change their name and their children's names. He acknowledges that the system cannot help/protect women in these circumstances.

Personally I think it is a tragedy that if I go punch a man in the face at a bar I get charged with assault and go to jail, if I punch my wife I get domestic violence which carries lighter repercussions (typically diversion or anger-management) and is too often pooh-poohed away. The punishment for both should be the same, hard jail time.
Author:  Lalaas [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Vladimirr, I'm sorry to hear about your sister & family. Ya'll will be in our thoughts & prayers.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Vladimirr, condolences. As Lalaas said, I'm sorry to hear about your sister and family. You and yours will be in my thoughts and prayers also.

Consider getting some grief counseling for yourself, it doesn't always feel like it helps, but in the long run, it does.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
So Tymoria, talk to us. Have you given the unanimous opinion of the posters here due consideration or are you going to rent to her anyway?

Please realize we aren't saying don't help her. We are saying be smart about the way in which you help her. Getting her out of her bad situation means really getting her out of the bad situation, not shifting the target to your place.
Author:  darksiege [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Condolences Vladimirr.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear that Vlad.
Author:  Jasmy [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
Condolences Vlad.
Author:  Aizle [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Holy **** Vlad. So sorry to hear that.

I agree with all the advice given. You will do best to help her get to the assistance she needs, but DO NOT rent a room to her.
Author:  Serienya [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh Vlad, I'm sorry.
Author:  Tymoria Brightblade [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
God Vlad, I'm so sorry :(

Sorry I dropped this bomb and then. . . well dropped it - life got insane for a few days but I very quikly realised that my idea was just a terrible one.

The next day that I saw her she was convinced that his gramma had "set him straight" and was happy and fine. then the next day the rollercoaster began again.

We were all with her, we even have a therapist working for us now as a sales person who tried to help her.

I'm convinced she got the **** kicked out of her on Thanksgiving, because despite her repeated assurances that she would be on shift and ready to go when we opened at midnight last night - she ended up calling in at 12:30 saying she had a docors note.

I guaruntee you it wasnt an illness - he got violent again. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that this on top of the several days of all day freak outs over the sitiation have gotten her as good as fired. I really dont know how she's going to avoid it.

She just doesnt seem ready to say "ENOUGH" She spoke to his parole officer, but never called the cops, she didnt want to get him arrested :(
Author:  Xerxes [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I only ever seem so come with problems, but this ones bi
I'm sorry Vlad =(
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Tymoria Brightblade wrote:
The next day that I saw her she was convinced that his gramma had "set him straight" and was happy and fine. then the next day the rollercoaster began again.


This right here is the root of the problem. This girl is still in love with the man she thinks this guy could be, not the ******* he really is, and she just can't bring herself to give up on the ideal.

When she understands - and when that will be, if ever, is anyone's guess - that he isn't going to change then she'll take some decisive action.

That's the only thing you can really do for her; keep hammering this point. This is what she really needs to understand. You may have to make the point very bluntly. Don't worry about hurting her feelings; that's the least of her problems at this point.
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