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Random Question (moon exploration)
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Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Random Question (moon exploration)
I was listening to someone on the radio the other day spouting on about some more moon-landing-conspiracy theories, but one question they asked make me stop and think:

"If the moon landing was real, why haven't we been back?"
Author:  readd skarlett [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Random Question
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Uh, we did go back, for a total of six whole times.
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Uh, we did go back, for a total of six whole times.


Yeah in a 4 year window. I mean, why since 1972 have we not been back?
Not that I'm buying all the conspiracy theory crap, but just curious as to why we haven't gone back in the past almost-40 years.
When I was in 5th grade I was told we would have houses on the moon by now. Why go on 7 trips to the moon in 4 years and then never go back?
Author:  Mookhow [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Random Question
People got bored with space exploration. You can see in the movie Apollo 13 that even by then, people were getting bored with trips to the moon. Since the United States was the only country heading that way, there was no sense of competition to motivate the people into funding space exploration. Focus shifted to Skylab, the space shuttles, and doing stuff in orbit rather than trying to reach distant celestial bodies.

I had a conversation with a friend of mine a few years ago, and he thought that space exploration was a pointless waste of money. This was a guy who like science fiction, and he didn't think it was useful to actually try to go into space.

Disclaimer: I just made all this up; I have no idea if that's actually why we stopped going, but that is what I would speculate. The conversation with my friend did happen though.

edit:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 804AAeybai
Quote:
Congress canceled the budget for the Apollo program, which meant that missions 18 and 19 were scrubbed, and then later re-tooled as part of the Apollo Applications Program, which flew 2 major missions: Apollo-Soyuz which was the first docking of two nations' spacecraft in orbit (Remember that USA and USSR were bitter enemies at this time, so it was a pretty momentous occasion, really), and Skylab. These two programs did not visit the Moon.
Author:  Aizle [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Because it's holy **** expensive, and the benefits aren't worth it.

The simplist answer is often the correct one.
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
So how much would an expedition to the moon cost today as opposed to 40 years ago? (And assuming we are not going to run into the Golden Toilet Seat scenario).

Why can't we set up some biodomes or something on the moon? Wouldn't we get better views of space from there? Besides, technology has gotten exponentially better in the past 40 years...I dunno. Seems to me it would be something we would consider.
Author:  Hopwin [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
The aliens from the base on the dark side of the moon told us to GTFO or face global extinction.

Well that or there is really nothing up there to see/do.
Author:  Colphax [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 
We jumped the shark by going to the moon. NASA's next Big Thing was the Space Truck er Shuttle, which in the end just wasn't glamorous and exciting enough to hold John Q Public's attention. The problem is that we need something to put men and material in orbit...but the Shuttle's tech is just too old, and NASA just doesn't have the budget to develop something newer and more cost effective.

We'll see if the space race re-ignites when the Chinese or the Indians get to the moon...

EDIT: Mookhow beat me to it! :p

And Aizle, I do think it's worth it, but I agree it's hella expensive
Author:  Micheal [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
To add to what Aizle said, to do anything more than we had already done would have been a whole lot more expensive. With the very expensive equipment, fuel and ground support, we managed to get two guys at a time to the moon for a very limited time in self contained suits too clumsy to do much of anything. We collected a few boxes of rocks and some data which showed we weren't going to easily make the moon habitable. It just wasn't worth it at the time and won't be worth it until we decide to visit the outer planets or leave the system entirely.

In the interim, we've lost the infrastructure to build moon launch capability. Our goal has been to build relatively low orbital satellite and space station habitats.

The decision was to wait until technology advances to the point of making space exploration affordable. I really can't argue with that right now, and I wish I could.
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Micheal wrote:
To add to what Aizle said, to do anything more than we had already done would have been a whole lot more expensive. With the very expensive equipment, fuel and ground support, we managed to get two guys at a time to the moon for a very limited time in self contained suits too clumsy to do much of anything. We collected a few boxes of rocks and some data which showed we weren't going to easily make the moon habitable. It just wasn't worth it at the time and won't be worth it until we decide to visit the outer planets or leave the system entirely.

In the interim, we've lost the infrastructure to build moon launch capability. Our goal has been to build relatively low orbital satellite and space station habitats.

The decision was to wait until technology advances to the point of making space exploration affordable. I really can't argue with that right now, and I wish I could.


Please reformulate this into something a little less rational and logical and into something with a bit more ranting and fantasy that makes less sense. This kind of post is too adultish and absolutely no fun. :)
Author:  Jeryn [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, it's basically a question of cost versus pretty limited practical application (when factored against that cost). Most of the things we can currently do with the moon involve learning stuff/doing science there. We're pretty much compelled to accept that there's a lot more to be done, with a lot less money, when you stop trying to send people a quarter million miles away to a rock with no atmosphere.

I'm not any fun either :P
Author:  Micheal [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay LadyKate, too versions

Bleeding heart liberal :?

Think of all the other things we could be doing with that money, feeding, clothing, housing the poor, the tired, the wretched, . . . spending all that money on space is heartless murder when we don't have the ability to give every piece of trailer trash a McMansion with a loaded fridge and 24 sports channels among the 600 mindless broadcast channels on cable television.

Heartless conservative accountant :evil:

What is the bottom line, what am I getting out of wasting all this money on space. We could be not spending my tax money on this crap and give me another tax break, right?
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
RE: BHL: Yeah, like we're actually *doing* that stuff with that money anyway. Let's not kid ourselves.

RE: HCA: Yeah like you need another beach house.

I propose: Moon pirates. *nod*
Author:  Jeryn [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Random Question
In keeping with the "let's have more fun" theme, what I'd rather see us do with the moon is establish enough of an automated presence there to mine the bejeezus out of it. Set up a bunch of mass drivers to send those harvested materials to Lagrange points where we build gigantic space stations and work out the kinks of long-term sustainable biodomes in space. From there you can build all your exploratory stuff without having to escape any gravity well at all. Wooooo!
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Random Question
I forget, are we in the tens or hundreds of thousands of consumer products that came out of the moon landing? The idea that lunar exploration was offering no tangible benefit to justify its cost was total bullshit. Problem was, the average person didn't realize that and there was no way to explain it to them. Your average American really is that ignorant. Space exploration requires a lot of time, effort, and money. The people we have available to us to staff and fund the project are the same people who want someone else to pay their medical bills. Our only motivator for space exploration was the fear of communist missile bases shooting at us from the moon.

Incidentally, the decline in performance in math and science at the high school level is sometimes attributed to the end of the moon landings. Sometime in the sixties, kids began performing remarkably well. Incoming college freshmen had much better math skills than previous decades (this is remarked on in the forward of the Feynman lectures). We began to see a decline again sometime in the '80s. One explanation put forth is that, after the Manhattan Project, scientists became heroes for children to emulate. After the moon landings stopped, and especially after the Challenger disaster, people generally ignored what scientists were doing and children went back to their typical idols.
Author:  Micheal [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
/agree Corolinth. I was talking about the practical 'wisdom' of the time. Yes, after the moon landing we seemed to lose a lot of steam, but the amazing advances we made during the period leading up to the moon landings and slightly afterward continue to pay benefits today and will for some time. I'm typing on one of the benefits right now.

Now, off to work.
Author:  Jeryn [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Just out of curiosity, what spinoffs are specifically attributable to the moon that wouldn't have happened otherwise at some point within the broader context of a manned space program?
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Pens that write under water?
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 
The point is that the entire space exploration budget has paid for itself in consumer products. That's including the cost of expensive moon landings. The entire space program has been a net profit to the country.
Author:  Jeryn [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh yeah I agree totally with that. I just think that even if it means being a killjoy, there's a lot lower hanging fruit to be had within a finite budget than doing stuff on the moon.
Author:  LadyKate [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I still a think a moon pirate Disney them park would be awesome.
Seriously, I bet we could get people to vacation on the moon. Bio-domes and no gravity. Good times.
Author:  Jeryn [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd go in a heartbeat. Shoot I'm in all seriousness a very likely candidate to sell my house as soon as the kids have grown and gone forth, and take $100k or so of the proceeds just to go on a suborbital flight or whatever that'll get me in 25 years or so. If I have a bucket list at all, getting off this rock for even a few minutes is right at the top of the list.

I would also buy NASA's budget director a drink. Talk about a thankless job; I'd hate to be the one making decisions about whose lifelong work does and doesn't get money in any given year.
Author:  Mookhow [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Random Question
Space exploration -> space colonies -> conflicts between the colonies and earth -> space war -> Gundams

Make it so!
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
The only way we're getting off this planet is after being enslaved by aliens. We're too flustered over minimizing our impact on Earth to realize the best way to do that is to leave.
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