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Evolution of Language
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5957		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RangerDave [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Evolution of Language
Slate wrote:
Suppose a friend said to you, "I know you're disinterested, so I want to ask you a question presently." Then he didn't say anything. Would you be momentarily nonplussed?

Quite likely, yes. The above paragraph contains four words whose primary definitions have changed or are currently changing. Disinterested traditionally meant "impartial," and now is generally used to mean "uninterested." Presently has gone from "shortly" to "currently"; momentarily from "for a moment" to "in a moment"; and nonplussed from perplexed to unimpressed, or fazed to unfazed. To lend support to my theory that the new meanings now dominate popular usage, I gave an ungraded and anonymous quiz to one of my college classes—an advanced writing seminar. Here is the percentage who gave the "wrong"/new definition:

Disinterested: 94
Momentarily: 88
Presently: 88
Nonplussed: 80


I'm amazed by those numbers, particularly the number for "disinterested." I had no idea so many people used it to mean "uninterested" instead of "impartial."
Author:  Talya [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
RangerDave wrote:
I'm amazed by those numbers, particularly the number for "disinterested." I had no idea so many people used it to mean "uninterested" instead of "impartial."


I take issue with his assumption that the anachronistic definition is "right" and the current vernacular is "wrong."
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Talya wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
I'm amazed by those numbers, particularly the number for "disinterested." I had no idea so many people used it to mean "uninterested" instead of "impartial."


I take issue with his assumption that the anachronistic definition is "right" and the current vernacular is "wrong."


Likely the writer is older and/or a trained linguist or historian. Those of us who are older know and are frequently more comfortable with the word definitions we learned when younger. Our society was quite segmented by age before. Now it is less so via the internet, and this allows us to learn the newer meanings.

The trained linguist and historian learn the older definitions and frequently hold to them as the 'correct' ones.

Knowing older definitions is important to allow understanding of what is said, and even more so to allow understanding of older writings. A good example is to understand what the Constitution meant to its writers.
Author:  Lonedar [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Everyone go watch "True Grit" and then tweet about the decline of the American English language.
Author:  Nitefox [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Lonedar wrote:
Everyone go watch "True Grit" and then tweet about the decline of the American English language.


Word up.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Quote:
so I want to ask you a question presently.


Only a foreigner would speak this way.
Author:  Talya [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Lex Luthor wrote:
Quote:
so I want to ask you a question presently.


Only a foreigner would speak this way.


Actually, I believe the point here is that these are not regional differences, but generational differences. In other words, Americans spoke this way, in the past.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Quote:
so I want to ask you a question presently.


Only a foreigner would speak this way.


Actually, I believe the point here is that these are not regional differences, but generational differences. In other words, Americans spoke this way, in the past.


And currently, only a foreigner would speak this way, like someone who learned English in an Indian classroom.
Author:  Noggel [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Might makes right with language! It's always changing, and generally not through any intentional acts. This makes what is "correct" kinda tricky. If something sounds really anachronistic, but is "correct", chances are in another 100-200 years it won't be used at all anymore.

I can't wait for "This is s/he" to go away. Sounds so wrong every time! Unfortunately, language change happens very slowly compared to how much longer I can expect to be alive. :(

Oh well, I suppose there are a few worse things in life I have to put up with... :p
Author:  RangerDave [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Noggel wrote:
I can't wait for "This is s/he" to go away.

It's better than the gender-neutral words feminist writers have come up with: "Zie went to the movies with hir partner." /boggle
Author:  FarSky [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
RangerDave wrote:
Noggel wrote:
I can't wait for "This is s/he" to go away.

It's better than the gender-neutral words feminist writers have come up with: "Zie went to the movies with hir partner." /boggle

+1
Author:  Noggel [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
Oh yeah, there are all sorts of horrible PC attempts to force a change in language.

In the above post though I refer only to the "proper" response primarily in telephone correspondence, where someone asks by name if you are available, unaware that they are already speaking with you!

"This is he."

Known to be correct* by a fairly big portion of the American public, if I guess correctly. But they only know it's correct because someone told them so. It seems stilted and forced. It would only sound natural in the context of a 1950s grammar classroom.

Maybe that's a better way to get across my point in the last post. If it's something that seems natural only in a 1950s grammar class, it's something that is likely due for extinction!

*Now that I think about it, I think I only know that's correct due to all the people spreading its correctness like an urban legend. I wonder how that fits into linguistics... it's not exactly might makes right, since people only use it because other people tell them it's correct rather than because they just simply use it on their own. Might make a good dissertation... if I were going into linguistics.
Author:  RangerDave [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
FarSky wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Noggel wrote:
I can't wait for "This is s/he" to go away.

It's better than the gender-neutral words feminist writers have come up with: "Zie went to the movies with hir partner." /boggle

+1

Fun with feminist writing:

Zie went to the movies with hir partner. They were both white, cis-gendered, USian beneficiaries of kyriarchical privilege, but being differently-abled and non-heteronormative, they were sensitized to the power differentials in society and thus took great offense at the blatant Othering, cultural appropriation, misogyny and glorification of the rape culture on display in the films, not to mention the potentially triggering nature of all the gratuitous violence and pornographic excess. In retrospect, they realized the Quentin Tarantino Film Festival might not have been the best choice for movie-night.
Author:  FarSky [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Evolution of Language
RangerDave wrote:
Fun with feminist writing:

Zie went to the movies with hir partner. They were both white, cis-gendered, USian beneficiaries of kyriarchical privilege, but being differently-abled and non-heteronormative, they were sensitized to the power differentials in society and thus took great offense at the blatant Othering, cultural appropriation, misogyny and glorification of the rape culture on display in the films, not to mention the potentially triggering nature of all the gratuitous violence and pornographic excess. In retrospect, they realized the Quentin Tarantino Film Festival might not have been the best choice for movie-night.

Hee. It's funny 'cuz it's true.
Author:  Shelgeyr [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Re the OP: I was briefly thrown by "disinterested" but had no issues with the rest of the words in question.
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