That ever happen to anyone else? I know pregnancy can cause bloody noses, but I have noticed a distinct correlation here....when I take my vitamin, I get a bloody nose. When I don't take my vitamin, I don't get a bloody nose.
Is there an explanation for this or am I just a freak?
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
With the pregnancy going on and all I would call your OBGYN or midwife for a consultation. You may be able to get addional informaiton through the manufacturer as well (either phone calls or website) but I would do that later and only if you are not totally satisfied.
Gorse, they're flinstone vitamins for petes sake, lol!
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
Not sure, but if you are crushing, cutting and snorting them, that may be some of the problem.
_________________ "It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones
Not sure, but if you are crushing, cutting and snorting them, that may be some of the problem.
Haven't we had this conversation before?
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
BTW Gorse, I called my OBGYN and the nurse said that was weird. She made a note in my chart and the Dr will discuss it with me on Thurs morning when I go in. She said it may be an inactive ingredient in the vitamin and they will give me some samples of something else to take instead.
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
I believe that conversation had something to do with "railing vicadon".
_________________ "It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
I still think there's a market for Flintstones Snortables®.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Last edited by Stathol on Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
Gorse, they're flinstone vitamins for petes sake, lol!
Commenting on this in particular...
Just because they are 'just vitamins' does not mean they can't hurt you. Some vitamins (the water soluble ones) you essentially cannot OD on. Fat soluble vitamins, on the other hand, you can OD and kill yourself on.
I have heard too many cases of people ending up with serious problems or dying because they thought that vitamins were always good.
Basically, you don't want to take any more than the recommended daily allowance, and even that can change depending on the person. Also remember that all vitamins from any source (including food) add into that daily allowance.
But yeah, we had a local lady who got told she needed to take potassium, so she was crushing up potassium tablets on bananas once a day. She died before they could get her into the hospital from ODing on potassium.
To add to the general trend: I had someone comment (someone very stupid) the other day that they never took any less than 4 over the counter drugs (aspirin, advil, tylenol) no matter what the packaging said. Just because it is OTC does not make it safe.
Similarly, just because it is natural, herbal, or anything else does not make it safe. It still must be used with careful consideration.
The increase in the number of problems from misuse or overuse of 'natural' supplements is growing steadily as more and more people use them. The main problems come from using an herbal supplement that has the same mechanism of action as a 'regular' drug you are on (IE, using St Johns Wart and a tricyclic antidepressent) but it is also possible to straight up OD on them.
/rant off
_________________ Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.
Personally, Nephyr, I wouldn't take the vitamins at all if it wasn't for all the flack I would recieve about being pregnant and the baby needing them. I took them every day for awhile and then tapered off to once or twice a week, when I remember to take them.... At my last checkup my Dr was shocked at how well my iron levels and other blood counts were. I don't really feel I need to take them, but I take one or two a week just in case and b/c the Dr tells me to.
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
are you on any blood thinners? (aspirin is a good example)
Had a quick look at the ingredient list and while nothing looks out of wack, the Vitamine E does have an adverse reaction on people with already thinned blood and could cause possible bleeding.
Iron is probably the major thing in pregnancy, along with calcium... maybe the solution is have a cow *giggle*
In all seriousness though, if the vitamines are giving you side effects, it's probably best to stop taking them, or try another brand.
No blood thinners. Other than the vitamins, just tylenol. The Dr will probably give me another vitamin, and I probably won't take them.
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
Lydia, just taking Tylenol a couple of times a week. None yesterday or the day before. Thanks Nephyr, I'll mention that to the doc on Thurs.
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
Are you using a heater of sorts? Central Air/Heat? Heater in the car?
Jake has problems with nose bleeds. They usually involve dry heat. His doctor said the blood vessels were too close to the surface. Heated air dried his nose out too much. Simple exam discovered the most prominent trouble vessels. The doctor cauterized them with a big match stick. It helped for a few years.
My mother had really bad nose bleeds from warfarin...another blood thinner. I think Vitamin E can have blood thinning effects but it would have to be really large dose.
Tell your doc to spare the speculum and grab the otoscope.
_________________ “The person who tries to live alone will not succeed as a human being. His heart withers if it does not answer another heart. His mind shrinks away if he hears only the echoes of his own thoughts and finds no other inspiration.” - Pearl S. Buck
I'm guessing it wasn't a match stick, perse, but rather a silver nitrate cauterizing stick- silver nitrate coating the end of a stick, causing a chemical burn after wetting.
_________________ Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:31 am Posts: 1145 Location: The subtropics
NephyrS wrote:
I'm guessing it wasn't a match stick, perse, but rather a silver nitrate cauterizing stick- silver nitrate coating the end of a stick, causing a chemical burn after wetting.
You beat me to it.
_________________ Memento Vivere
I have local knowledge. That sandbar was not there yesterday!
But match sticks are so much more fun!!! mmm.. fire...
I'd probably say that it's a combination of all of the above.
The analgesic, the dryer weather (it's summer over there right?), the beautiful oven (hormones having parties) and the multiV could have just being the straw.
I also agree that you should only take the Vitamines you need (Iron, calcium, etc) rather than going for a broad spectrum. Eat lots of fruit, it's coming up to autumn should be lots of those around.
You could always get the king to drive out in the middle of the night for a mixed fruit cheesecake hehe...
The potential adverse effects of multivitamin and mineral supplements have not been systematically determined in well-designed randomized, controlled trials. Because of uncertainties regarding design (for example, doses and outcome monitoring) and ethical constraints, such studies may never be performed. A few adverse effects of nutrients in multivitamin preparations may be interpreted as common responses in the general population because they occurred with certain consistency in different primary prevention trials. Examples include [...] minor bleeding, particularly epistaxis, with vitamin E supplementation. However, there was no consistent evidence to suggest that vitamin E supplementation results in more serious bleeding events, such as hemorrhagic stroke (36, 43). [...]
We examined whether vitamin E increased adverse effects due to bleeding (gastrointestinal bleeding, hematuria, easy bruising, epistaxis) because of the potential for vitamin E to inhibit platelet function,52 gastrointestinal symptoms (gastric upset, nausea, diarrhea, constipation), or fatigue. There were no differences between reported adverse effects for any of these variables among women in the 2 groups, apart from a small, but significant, increase in the risk of epistaxis [nosebleeds] (RR, 1.06; 95% CI, 1.01-1.11; P = .02).
Large doses of vitamin A and vitamin E have been found to antagonize vitamin K (8). Excess vitamin A appears to interfere with vitamin K absorption, whereas a form of vitamin E (tocopherol quinone) may inhibit vitamin K-dependent carboxylase enzymes. One study in adults with normal coagulation status found that supplementation with 1,000 IU of vitamin E for 12 weeks decreased gamma-carboxylation of prothrombin, a vitamin K-dependent protein (52). A vitamin E-vitamin K interaction has also been reported in patients taking anticoagulatory drugs like warfarin. Hemorrhage (excessive bleeding) was reported in a man taking 5 mg of warfarin and 1,200 IU of vitamin E daily (53).
(I'm quoting from the abstract, here, but the full text is available from the link above)
Quote:
Background: Cases of enhanced anticoagulant effect in response to high-dose vitamin E supplementation have been reported among patients taking oral anticoagulants. Although a vitamin E–vitamin K interaction was proposed to underlie this effect, it has not been systematically investigated in adults with normal baseline coagulation status. [...] Design: Vitamin K status, which was assessed with the use of plasma phylloquinone concentrations, the degree of under--carboxylation of prothrombin (proteins induced by vitamin K absence–factor II, PIVKA-II), and the percentage of undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOC), was determined in 38 men and women with rheumatoid arthritis (study A) and in 32 healthy men (study B) participating in 2 independent, 12-wk randomized clinical trials of vitamin E supplementation (1000 IU/d).
Results: Mean (± SD) PIVKA-II increased from 1.7 ± 1.7 to 11.9 ± 16.1 ng/mL (P < 0.001) in study A and from 1.8 ± 0.6 to 5.3 ± 3.9 ng/mL (P < 0.001) in study B in response to 12 wk of vitamin E supplementation. An increase in PIVKA-II is indicative of poor vitamin K status. In contrast, the other measures of vitamin K status (ie, plasma phylloquinone concentration and percentage of ucOC) did not change significantly in response to the supplementation.
Conclusions: High-dose vitamin E supplementation increased PIVKA-II in adults not receiving oral anticoagulant therapy. The clinical significance of these changes warrants further investigation, but high doses of vitamin E may antagonize vitamin K. Whether such an interaction is potentially beneficial or harmful remains to be determined.
TL;DR version: apparently there is a fair amount of evidence linking vitamin E supplementation with epistaxis (nosebleeds). Probably, this has something to do with vitamin E acting as an antagonist for certain proteins associated with vitamin K. It's unclear whether or not there's anything harmful about that. Large amounts of vitamin A may also antagonize the absorption of vitamin K.
That said, I'm still not entirely sure what's going on here.
Excessive vitamin E in this case refers to doses of 1000 IU/day or more. Some goofy multivitamins will have ridiculous amounts of vitamin E -- like 600 or 800 IU. But I looked it up, and Flinststones Complete have only 30 IU, which is more than the RDA of 15 IU, but it's hardly excessive. 30 IU of vitamin E is about as much as you get from a cup of dry-roasted almonds.
As far as vitamin A goes, excessive amounts of the retinol form are known to cause birth defects. The RDA for pregnant women is about 2500 IU of the retinol form, but there's no documented increase in risk at doses less than 10,000 IU/day. Flintstones Complete have 2000 IU of the retinol form. Which is a pretty reasonable amount for a pregnant woman. You might get a little more retinol vitamin A from eggs (naturally) or from vitamin A fortified milk (artificial) to get you to the 2500 IU RDA goal.
But if not, those vitamins also include 1000 IU of the carotene form. Your body (or rather your bacteria) can convert that 1000 IU of carotene vitamin A into 500 IU of the retinol form if needed. Otherwise, it just stays in the carotene form. Your body can't really use the carotene form, but it's also entirely non-toxic and safe for pregnant woman. The worst that can happen with excessive carotene A is that you'll turn temporarily orange
That said, liver and liver products contain huge quantities of retinol vitamin A. In the ballpark of 20,000 - 30,000 IU. Pregnant women should avoid anything like chicken liver, veal, or cod liver oil. And really, even people who aren't pregnant should probably avoid eating these things too often. But assuming that LadyKate hasn't been eating liver, the multivitamin is probably her only major source of retinol vitamin A.
So IANAD, but...
It sounds like the levels of vitamin A and E from your particular multivitamin are not in the range that would normally be associated with nosebleeds. If I had to guess, pregnancy is probably the larger contributing factor. It's probably putting you right on the edge for nosebleeds, and the (seemingly non-excessive) amounts of A and E in the vitamins are just enough to tip you over it.
A vitamin K deficiency could also play a role in this, but that's pretty unlikely unless your diet is very poor. If in doubt, eat a serving of green leafy vegetables every day. I'm reasonable confident in my non-professional opinion that this will not kill you
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
>.> Everything I say in this post does not reflect anything apart from personal opinion. <.<
There has been some reports done recently (2008) which suggest that Vitamin E has negative effects on a person's health, with people taking it vs not taking it having a higher rate of mortality (~5%) This is also why I'm suggesting for LK to stop taking multiV.
>.> The above have nothing to do with any government agency views and any such occurance are purely co-incidental. <.<
Actually Lydiaa we have a lot of rain and humidity right now, ugh. And Stathol it's actually 3000 IU on the vitamin A. All I know is that when I take the vitamins I get nosebleeds and don't get nosebleeds when I don't take them. Maybe I'm getting too much A or E in my diet? I don't eat liver but I do have eggs every morning and I eat a lot of bread...isn't all that fortified anyway?
_________________ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth
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