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Political Division:
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7770		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rynar [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Political Division:
Robert A. Heinlein wrote:
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.


I believe Heinlein is correct, and I would like to know your opinions. Built into the framework of his argument, the poll will be binary.

To compliment the discussion in this thread, I would like to post this as a poll in the general forums in order to get a larger data sample than I might get were this to be posted in Hellfire.

In the interests of keeping this thread open, please keep the tone civil.
Author:  Aegnor [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
As I do not want my neighbor to murder me, I guess I would want him to be controlled. If he did end up murdering me, I would want him to go to prison, which would result in much of his life being controlled. Therefore, in this artificially binary choice, I feel I have to go with the first option.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
:o I've never even thought about my neighbor murdering me. What kind of neighborhood do you live in?
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I voted controlled. I want my roads clear on the way to work, and I don't want people messing with me.

edit:

I want the government to be controlled too, since I also don't want them intruding on me. So basically, I'm pro-control.
Author:  Lydiaa [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Considering the average IQ of the general public... some control is better than no control.

Since it's not a sliding scale, I went with control over no control.
Author:  Taskiss [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Since it's binary, I guess we have to assume worse case, which is anarchy vs being in prison ... and prison is about the only thing that makes anarchy look good.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a faulty poll for two reasons:

First, very few people believe that a complete lack of control is a good thing.

Second, the poll does not match the quoted statement. He makes no reference to controlling others, he references people who want to be controlled, or do not want to be controlled. That is very different from whether or not we want others to be controlled.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think people should be controlled from blocking roadways for example. If someone parks in my reserved spot by my apartment, I want their car to be 'controlled' via a tow truck to another place far away. There's many examples like this. I also want the government to be controlled away from snooping on my private life.
Author:  Rynar [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
First, very few people believe that a complete lack of control is a good thing.


Which is why I said "best describes", as opposed to "completely describes", so were talking in general concepts, not in detailed specifics. There are degrees to everything, and I'm trying to avoid a 20 option poll, assuming that 20 would even be enough.

Quote:
Second, the poll does not match the quoted statement. He makes no reference to controlling others, he references people who want to be controlled, or do not want to be controlled. That is very different from whether or not we want others to be controlled.


Heinlein wrote:
those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire

Rynar wrote:
I want people to be controlled and I do not want people to be controlled


Ummm, yes they do.
Author:  Taskiss [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, and I'm "people" too...
Author:  shuyung [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not.
Author:  Rynar [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Taskiss wrote:
Yeah, and I'm "people" too...

Heh... you should talk to someone about that, other than one of the other people you are, that is. :P

To be serious though, yes, while you are encompased by "people", I did not specifically ask whether you wanted to be controlled or not.
Author:  Taskiss [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's the thing, I figure the scope is everyone, and if I want you controlled, I'd be controlled too.

Not my thing, in any way, shape or form. I follow the law 'cause the thought of getting myself into a situation where someone would control me terrifies me. I'd be like a wild animal in prison, throwing myself against the bars 'till I died, I believe.
Author:  Mookhow [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
People? I ain't people! I'm.... "a shimmering, glowing star in the cinema firmament."

I voted not controlled.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ahhh, you're all brave, bold snowflakes.
Author:  Stathol [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Division:
Soylent Green is people. I believe Soylent Green should be a controlled substance. Therefore ... ?
Author:  Rynar [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Division:
Stathol wrote:
Soylent Green is people. I believe Soylent Green should be a controlled substance. Therefore ... ?

Profit!
Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Political Division:
This
Aegnor wrote:
As I do not want my neighbor to murder me, I guess I would want him to be controlled. If he did end up murdering me, I would want him to go to prison, which would result in much of his life being controlled. Therefore, in this artificially binary choice, I feel I have to go with the first option.

And this.
Lex Luthor wrote:
I voted controlled. I want my roads clear on the way to work, and I don't want people messing with me.

edit:

I want the government to be controlled too, since I also don't want them intruding on me. So basically, I'm pro-control.
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not controlled.

I'll take an argorist society.
Author:  Nevandal [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:20 am ]
Post subject: 
uncontrolled
Author:  deadman1204 [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Division:
the wording of this poll is just a BIT biased
I voted controlled cause I like people not murdering me
Author:  Talya [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:10 am ]
Post subject: 
other than dedicated anarchists, nobody wants a complete lack of societal control. I'm not approaching the poll from that angle; it's not asking for absolutes. It's asking from a much more general standpoint.

(not controlled.)
Author:  Rynar [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
The murder issue seems to be a sticking point for many people, so I would like to ask those people a follow-up question.

Do you feel that it is only by government control that you are currently, actively prevented from being murdered by your neighbors? Is it only by this control you are actively prevented from murdering others?
Author:  Corolinth [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Of course. We're taught that the first thing Man did upon being granted free will and the ability to make personal insight was to break the rules and do something morally wrong. Man is wicked, and therefore it is imperative that Man be controlled.
Author:  Nevandal [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rynar wrote:
The murder issue seems to be a sticking point for many people, so I would like to ask those people a follow-up question.

Do you feel that it is only by government control that you are currently, actively prevented from being murdered by your neighbors? Is it only by this control you are actively prevented from murdering others?


here's where religion comes in



i like how the poll was ruined by the people who are afraid of getting killed.



bahaha
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