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School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
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Author:  Elmarnieh [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... _blog.html

By Marion Brady

A longtime friend on the school board of one of the largest school systems in America did something that few public servants are willing to do. He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.

By any reasonable measure, my friend is a success. His now-grown kids are well-educated. He has a big house in a good part of town. Paid-for condo in the Caribbean. Influential friends. Lots of frequent flyer miles. Enough time of his own to give serious attention to his school board responsibilities. The margins of his electoral wins and his good relationships with administrators and teachers testify to his openness to dialogue and willingness to listen.

He called me the morning he took the test to say he was sure he hadn’t done well, but had to wait for the results. A couple of days ago, realizing that local school board members don’t seem to be playing much of a role in the current “reform” brouhaha, I asked him what he now thought about the tests he’d taken.

“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly. On the reading test, I got 62% . In our system, that’s a “D”, and would get me a mandatory assignment to a double block of reading instruction.

He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate.

“I help oversee an organization with 22,000 employees and a $3 billion operations and capital budget, and am able to make sense of complex data related to those responsibilities.

“I have a wide circle of friends in various professions. Since taking the test, I’ve detailed its contents as best I can to many of them, particularly the math section, which does more than its share of shoving students in our system out of school and on to the street. Not a single one of them said that the math I described was necessary in their profession.

“It might be argued that I’ve been out of school too long, that if I’d actually been in the 10th grade prior to taking the test, the material would have been fresh. But doesn’t that miss the point? A test that can determine a student’s future life chances should surely relate in some practical way to the requirements of life. I can’t see how that could possibly be true of the test I took.”

Here’s the clincher in what he wrote:

“If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had.

“It makes no sense to me that a test with the potential for shaping a student’s entire future has so little apparent relevance to adult, real-world functioning. Who decided the kind of questions and their level of difficulty? Using what criteria? To whom did they have to defend their decisions? As subject-matter specialists, how qualified were they to make general judgments about the needs of this state’s children in a future they can’t possibly predict? Who set the pass-fail “cut score”? How?”

“I can’t escape the conclusion that decisions about the [state test] in particular and standardized tests in general are being made by individuals who lack perspective and aren’t really accountable.”

There you have it. A concise summary of what’s wrong with present corporately driven education change: Decisions are being made by individuals who lack perspective and aren’t really accountable.

Those decisions are shaped not by knowledge or understanding of educating, but by ideology, politics, hubris, greed, ignorance, the conventional wisdom, and various combinations thereof. And then they’re sold to the public by the rich and powerful.

All that without so much as a pilot program to see if their simplistic, worn-out ideas work, and without a single procedure in place that imposes on them what they demand of teachers: accountability.

But maybe there’s hope. As I write, a New York Times story by Michael Winerip makes my day. The stupidity of the current test-based thrust of reform has triggered the first revolt of school principals.

Winerip writes: “As of last night, 658 principals around the state (New York) had signed a letter — 488 of them from Long Island, where the insurrection began — protesting the use of students’ test scores to evaluate teachers’ and principals’ performance.”

One of those school principals, Winerip says, is Bernard Kaplan. Kaplan runs one of the highest-achieving schools in the state, but is required to attend 10 training sessions.

“It’s education by humiliation,” Kaplan said. “I’ve never seen teachers and principals so degraded.”

Carol Burris, named the 2010 Educator of the Year by the School Administrators Association of New York State, has to attend those 10 training sessions.

Katie Zahedi, another principal, said the session she attended was “two days of total nonsense. I have a Ph.D., I’m in a school every day, and some consultant is supposed to be teaching me to do evaluations.”

A fourth principal, Mario Fernandez, called the evaluation process a product of “ludicrous, shallow thinking. They’re expecting a tornado to go through a junkyard and have a brand new Mercedes pop up.”

My school board member-friend concluded his email with this: “I can’t escape the conclusion that those of us who are expected to follow through on decisions that have been made for us are doing something ethically questionable.”

He’s wrong. What they’re being made to do isn’t ethically questionable. It’s ethically unacceptable. Ethically reprehensible. Ethically indefensible.

How many of the approximately 100,000 school principals in the U.S. would join the revolt if their ethical principles trumped their fears of retribution? Why haven’t they been asked?
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Want to see what has even less relevance? Look at this entrance exam to Harvard from 1869.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60798858/1869 ... rance-Exam
Author:  Nevandal [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
“It’s education by humiliation,” Kaplan said. “I’ve never seen teachers and principals so degraded.”


Sorry to say, but if a teacher isn't smart enough to pass a 10th grade standardized test, they're just not sharp enough to teach--unless they excel in some specialized area.


This is kind of amusing, though. The next step would logically be to have these people star on "Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader?"


EDIT:
Mookhow wrote:
The person who took the standardized test isn't a teacher. He is a business man who is also on a school board.


oops. i knew that, I swear...

I made that comment after reading this part:
Quote:
Winerip writes: “As of last night, 658 principals around the state (New York) had signed a letter — 488 of them from Long Island, where the insurrection began — protesting the use of students’ test scores to evaluate teachers’ and principals’ performance.”

One of those school principals, Winerip says, is Bernard Kaplan. Kaplan runs one of the highest-achieving schools in the state, but is required to attend 10 training sessions.

“It’s education by humiliation,” Kaplan said. “I’ve never seen teachers and principals so degraded.”


I was referring to teachers in general being made to take the standardized tests.
Author:  Mookhow [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
The person who took the standardized test isn't a teacher. He is a business man who is also on a school board.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Want to see what has even less relevance? Look at this entrance exam to Harvard from 1869.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60798858/1869 ... rance-Exam

Damn. My admission to Harvard would have been sunk by Greek. Oh well.

It should probably be pointed out, however, that at the time, much philosophy would have been taught from the original Greek sources, and Catholicism meant that Latin was also commonly learned.
Author:  Corolinth [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
The article is somewhat misleading. He has a Bachelor of Science and two masters. That's great. What are they in? For that matter, where did he get them? That might count, too.

I would expect he's an education major. Even if he's not, it's worth pointing out that "Bachelor of Science" does not necessarily mean a hard science. His failure on the math section is unsurprising as the majority of adults, including successful ones, are almost completely incompetent with math. This is not some new failing that our school system has suddenly developed.

The test questions being referenced in the article escape the typical human being because of the aforementioned incompetence. The typical college graduate with a four-year degree has competence with mathematics ranging from 8th to 10th grade. Of those graduates who go on to an advanced degree, only a small percentage will develop any additional faculties with math. So, yes, the people polled about the various questions saw no relevance to their professional careers. These are the same people who, by and large, are unable to recognize that they solve word problems every time they go to Burger King. These are people who write up a sign listing a price at 0.40¢/oz and think it means 40 cents per ounce.

In other words, their opinions are suspect.

I am sure Khross could present similar observations regarding other aspects of the exams. People "don't use this in their everyday lives." That's not being disputed. Of course they don't use it. They don't know it, so they can't possibly use it, nor can they recognize where it might be used.

His concerns should be noted. The tests definitely need work. I find them rather suspect, myself. His opinions do not count toward such dialog beyond his initial concerns. It is also possible that he isn't as smart as he thinks he is, and maybe he just happens to hold two bullshit Master's degrees. Those do exist, and he is in one of the industries where they're most prevalent.
Author:  Mookhow [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
The description doesn't sound like he's in education. He sounds like he's a C?O or VP of a company, since he's rich, owns a big house and a condo, and flies around a lot. He also says he oversees 22,000 people and a $3 billion budget. The board of education thing seems to be as side job. I would guess he has a BS/MS in business and a BS in whatever field he works in.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
First, let's assume this guy is intelligent, and well educated.

You don't teach to an education level equivalent to retention after how many years?

If I sat down to a calculus test with my 11th grade self, I'd expect my 11th grade self to smoke me. It's been a while. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a student do well in the subjects they are currently studying.

Second, this guy has an axe to grind. He went into this test to make a point. I don't trust that he tried his best.
Author:  Timmit [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's been almost 15 years since I took a math course...I'd be shocked if I could pass a calculus exam now but it would have been child's play back then.

Unfortunately my brain has a very well developed "content flush" system for things I don't care about or use very often.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Second, this guy has an axe to grind. He went into this test to make a point. I don't trust that he tried his best.

That's a fair point. Run this stunt during election season in a close race, and I'd be less skeptical about throwing the test. Because if you did, your opponent would study up, ace it, and then run on "The test isn't that hard, my opponent is simply a moron."
Author:  Lydiaa [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
School isn’t always about the content, but the method of learning.

In primary school, it taught me to have fun.
In secondary school, it taught me to work smart, not hard.
In university, it taught me to think and work through complex problems, rather than go at it blindly.

10 years on, I can hardly remember the majority of what was learnt in those institutes; let alone what I use to excel at in math (I’m looking at you imaginary numbers).

I bet, the method of learning that guy obtained from his education, helped him along in life, even if its content didn’t.

In order for this test to be done using a scientific method. You would need a person educated using today’s education system, one who under went the education system of 20 years ago, and one who was never educated. Give them each a specific amount of time to study something none of them were familiar with, then give them a test at the end of it.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Second, this guy has an axe to grind. He went into this test to make a point. I don't trust that he tried his best.

That's a fair point. Run this stunt during election season in a close race, and I'd be less skeptical about throwing the test. Because if you did, your opponent would study up, ace it, and then run on "The test isn't that hard, my opponent is simply a moron."


LOL
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.


Gee, why didn't he take the "regular stakes" version of the test if he was so incompetent?
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Quote:
He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.


Gee, why didn't he take the "regular stakes" version of the test if he was so incompetent?


Like the PSAT instead of the SAT?
Author:  Stathol [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
Quote:
“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly.

Firstly, this is just sad. This is a test for 10th graders. However badly written, not being able to figure out even a single question -- not even working backwards from the answers -- demonstrates a complete inability with both basic algebra and basic geometry.

Secondly, I'd really like to know which state this is. Or more to the point, I'd like to know the exact format of the test so that I can evaluate the plausibility of his claims. The implication of the article is that the test is multiple-choice. 10/60 is worse than expected for a person randomly guessing on a 5-answer multiple choice test, but it's still at least a plausible outcome. However, if the test has only 4 answers, I'm calling bullshit on his claim.
Author:  Corolinth [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Stathol, you seem to think the typical adult is far more competent in mathematics than they actually are. The statement that this man was unable to work backwards to figure out a single problem is perfectly believable, and in no way reflects on the quality of the test.
Timmit wrote:
It's been almost 15 years since I took a math course...I'd be shocked if I could pass a calculus exam now but it would have been child's play back then.
Calculus is three college semesters above what this test was covering. This guy was not looking at questions that even remotely approached calculus.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nor was he competent in reading. 62%? How the hell?
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Stathol, you seem to think the typical adult is far more competent in mathematics than they actually are. The statement that this man was unable to work backwards to figure out a single problem is perfectly believable, and in no way reflects on the quality of the test.


The average adult is not that good with mathematics, but they are far more competent than you commonly pretend. It is highly implausible that he would not know the answer to a single question unless it were absurdly difficult or he is uncommonly bad at math.
Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:08 am ]
Post subject: 
I'll tell you what - how about everybody goes to their local community college and take their math placement test cold, without any preliminary study. That's pretty much exactly what this guy did. About half of you will test into remedial algebra. That's taking into account people like Stathol bringing up the average.
Author:  Nevandal [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Stathol, you seem to think the typical adult is far more competent in mathematics than they actually are. The statement that this man was unable to work backwards to figure out a single problem is perfectly believable, and in no way reflects on the quality of the test.
Timmit wrote:
It's been almost 15 years since I took a math course...I'd be shocked if I could pass a calculus exam now but it would have been child's play back then.
Calculus is three college semesters above what this test was covering. This guy was not looking at questions that even remotely approached calculus.



That, and calculus is really just the beginning to actually understanding mathematics.
Author:  Nevandal [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Stathol wrote:
Quote:
“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly.

Firstly, this is just sad. This is a test for 10th graders. However badly written, not being able to figure out even a single question -- not even working backwards from the answers -- demonstrates a complete inability with both basic algebra and basic geometry.



...but I have to agree with Stathol on this. Pretty pathetic.


Corolinth wrote:
The statement that this man was unable to work backwards to figure out a single problem is perfectly believable, and in no way reflects on the quality of the test.


The fact that he wasn't able to do ANY of the math, out of 60 questions, at a 10th grade level doesn't surprise me. That doesn't mean it's not pathetic.

I at least expect the average adult who graduated high school to be able to understand addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, exponents / logs, very simple algebra and maybe a small idea of what trig and geometry are. Any knowledge above that I find is pretty rare. Any less than that usually means I'm talking to someone I don't really want to talk to.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Calculus is vital to giving you a greater understanding of the world and nature, and is a necessary element of many engineering endeavors. Anyone who doesn't understand the basic principles is uneducated in my opinion.
Author:  Stathol [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
I'll tell you what - how about everybody goes to their local community college and take their math placement test cold, without any preliminary study. That's pretty much exactly what this guy did. About half of you will test into remedial algebra.

It's funny you should mention this, because this is exactly what was fresh on my mind. It turns out I got exempted from having to take the state placement test, but not before I had looked over a few sample versions of the test just in case.

I wouldn't be surprised that the average adult would fail the math portion of such a test. I wouldn't even be all that surprised if 50% of people who hold a bachelor's degree as their highest level of education were to fail it. But I still think it strains credibility that a person with a BS and two master's (and who is doing doctoral level work) would truly not know the answer to even one question. It doesn't even really matter what the degrees are in.

I've actually sent off an email to op-ed's author requesting that he disclose which state's test was taken, or at least that he provide the format of the test. I have a strong suspicion which, if correct, makes the story fishy in other ways. Namely, the test I'm fingering has 58 multiple choice questions with 4 answers each. What's my point? A person just guessing randomly on such a test (without even eliminating any answers) will score better than 10/58 89% of the time. If we accept that he was truly just guessing his way through the entire exam, then his purported score is an improbable one.

This certainly doesn't prove anything "beyond a reasonable doubt", but it's improbable enough that (if my guess about the test is right) I'll call bullshit on it one way or the other. I.e., either he scored higher than he's claiming, or he wasn't just guessing.
Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: School Board member takes 10th grade standardized test
11th grade math is the requirement for most Bachelor's degrees. This includes several Bachelor of Science degrees. Master's degrees typically do not involve any additional training in mathematics, so the fact that he has those and is pursuing a doctorate doesn't really mean anything in that regard. This is why I ask, "In what, and from where?" He might have his degrees in Political Science, for instance. It is possible, and in fact likely that he has never had math faculties above what the test is designed for.

It is true that it's highly improbable someone scores that low on such a test if they're just guessing randomly. That only holds if a person is making random guesses. The problem is that according to current models, the human brain is not capable of doing anything truly random. He states that knew the answers to none of them, so he did read them. Therefore, he's no longer randomly guessing. Something curious pops up in mathematics where the correct answer often "looks wrong" until you do the math. Since he's not able to do the math, there is a significant portion of the test where he will have simply ruled out the correct answer as a matter of course.

Your statistics show that there are two possibilities: he could have an agenda and intentionally picked wrong answers, or his capabilities are such that he was better off rolling an unbiased die instead. You contend it is the first, which I do agree is a perfectly legitimate conclusion. I contend that there is a second, and it can not be discounted with only the information we have at hand.
Author:  Nevandal [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
________ is vital to giving you a greater understanding of the world and nature, and is a necessary element of many ________ endeavors. Anyone who doesn't understand the basic principles is uneducated in my opinion.



8-)
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