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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:54 am 
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Ran across this quote on the medical forum on medscape and wondered what you all think about it.

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"Cheating, argues author David Callahan, is no longer the exclusive purview of lowlife criminals, slick hucksters, and shady characters with ace cards shoved in secretive places. Now everyone's doing it and because everyone sees everyone else doing it, they keep on doing it. Callahan says the trouble begins in America's brutally competitive economic climate, which rewards results and looks the other way when it comes to the ethical and even criminal transgressions of those who come out on the winning end. Certainly there is no shortage of examples of cheating from the business community, and Callahan nimbly dissects the dishonest actions of the usual suspects (Enron, WorldCom, Global Crossing) to demonstrate how that same mentality extends out to our educational system, amateur and professional sports, the news media, and even the lives of common citizens who, while they would never think of themselves as being cheaters, are nevertheless inclined to commit the occasional act of beneficial fudging. And while honesty is a nice ideal, Callahan says that cheaters cheat because, contrary to oft-repeated axioms, cheaters win: the chances of being caught are shrinking as are the punishments meted out should one be nabbed, and the benefits of a successful cheat far outstrip any potential threat. Further, Callahan posits that otherwise upright folks who would not cheat are drawn into the practice out of fear that they simply won't be able to make it in modern society otherwise. There's a lot of material for Callahan to work with here, given that every instance of cheating is fair game as source material and is able to be used to construct a theory of epidemic. And the range of material is so broad and the basic argument ("we cheat more") so simple that The Cheating Culture feels a bit like a Newsweek trend piece writ extremely large. Still, it must be noted that Callahan really had all that material to work with and that fact alone is compelling evidence that his premise is dead on."

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:55 am 
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I don't know of any cheaters, or circumstances where cheating is viable.

It's very stressful to go against the rules and practices of decent and ordinary people. Not worth it for whatever minimal gains you think you can have.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:04 am 
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Everybody cheats, and everyone always has. One thing you can count on human beings to do is to act intheir own best self interests.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:52 pm 
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I believe there is a large part of the US that has always operated this way, and that part is expanding.

I disagree with Rynar that everyone cheats, and what he seems to be implying in that acting in ones best self interests is equal to cheating. While one's self interest can be used as a reason for cheating, they aren't necessarily connected.

I agree with the author that our "Winning is the only thing" mentality has continued to spread and permeate our society, to it's detriment IMHO.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Winning is the only thing, as a concept, is hardly new. It is the default setting of humanity for all of human history.

We are self-centered in our basic nature because we see the world through the centralized filter of our own existance.

Everyone lies, and everyone cheats.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:10 pm 
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I don't know anyone who lies or cheats to any significance.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:53 pm 
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Could you give examples of this lying and cheating Rynar? If it's something like showing up at work until 9:10 and not telling your boss you were 10 minutes late, then who cares.

Maybe it's the people you spend time with. If you hang out with losers, then sure, "everyone" is going to lie and cheat. You could seek counseling and try to find ways to make new friends.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:24 am 
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I try to live a pretty honest life. Im a terrible liar. I wouldnt say Im universally truthful, but I dont think I routinely or habitually distort the truth to gain personal advantage.

Maybe the difference is where you take an absolutist stance as to what counts as 'lying and cheating' ("do I look nice today?" "yes dear, of course")


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:36 am 
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SuiNeko wrote:
I try to live a pretty honest life. Im a terrible liar. I wouldnt say Im universally truthful, but I dont think I routinely or habitually distort the truth to gain personal advantage.

Maybe the difference is where you take an absolutist stance as to what counts as 'lying and cheating' ("do I look nice today?" "yes dear, of course")


Just like any other example of human behavior you find people at both ends of the spectrum. Some people behave well, like you. At the other end of the spectrum are compulsive liars and cheaters. Most people find themselves somewhere in between, and somewhere in that murk there is a mean. And that mean has more of an impact than you probably attribute.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:05 am 
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On the scale, I try to approach the good end as much as possible. I'd be lying if I said I was perfect.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:02 am 
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I still don't know what you're talking about. Could you give an example of all this lying?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Tricking people out of their passwords for online games would be an example you're familiar with, Lex.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Tricking people out of their passwords for online games would be an example you're familiar with, Lex.


I didn't lie about that, and haven't done that in 6 years.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:31 pm 
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:roll:

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Dishonesty, telling your family You'll be doing A when you know quite well you will be doing B. Telling an officer you don't know why he pulled you over when you know quite well. Calling in sick when you really aren't. Telling your instructors false stories about why your homework is not ready to be turned in. Arguing with a bouncer who's trying to evict you for misbehaving, when you have been. Trying to buy alcohol when you're underage, especially with a false ID. Not reporting income on your taxes, or claiming deductions you aren't eligible for. Plagiarizing someone else's work. Shoplifting.

Those are some of the more common ones Lex, and no I haven't done all of them, but I have done some.

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