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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:12 am 
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Talya wrote:
Raell wrote:
Talya wrote:
Germans themselves don't even get emotional!



Hummm, I have been known to have a feeling or two at times.

Sprichst du deutsch?



No but I am a solid quarter German. My grandmother on dad's side was born there and came to the states as a child just before the start of WW1. My grandfathers line on the other hand runs all over Europe and has been state side since 1760 or so.


Anyway...YAY Star Wars.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Raell wrote:
Talya wrote:
Raell wrote:
Talya wrote:
Germans themselves don't even get emotional!



Hummm, I have been known to have a feeling or two at times.

Sprichst du deutsch?



No but I am a solid quarter German. My grandmother on dad's side was born there and came to the states as a child just before the start of WW1. My grandfathers line on the other hand runs all over Europe and has been state side since 1760 or so.


Anyway...YAY Star Wars.



Bah. You're no more German than I am Norwegian.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Adults tend to view children through rose colored glasses, because when we think of kids, we tend to think of our own first. Kids are dumb as a box of rocks. Yes, this includes your child. Explicitly your child. That is not just a blanket statement, it applies directly and personally to any and all minors you may have come into contact with. Kids are reliant on adults to be smart for them. (Which means a lot of them are doomed, but I digress). Children are our future, not our present. They may become great and wise leaders of humanity one day, but that day is not today, for today they are inept buffoons who can't figure out how to close the **** refrigerator.

A child's opinion on Star Wars does not count. They may be amused, and that's fine. I am happy that they are delighted. Their opinion does not count. These are the people who have to sing that **** song from Frozen three times per hour, every hour. But they can't actually sing the whole song. No! They can sing 3-5 lines from the song, out of order.

There is a certain bar one has to clear before their opinion matters. (Like being able to use "there" instead of "their," or at least being able to catch your damnyouautocorrect before someone else sees it and thinks you type like Ranelagh). Kids can't even see the bar without a step stool, let alone get over it unassisted.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:08 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Adults tend to view children through rose colored glasses, because when we think of kids, we tend to think of our own first. Kids are dumb as a box of rocks. Yes, this includes your child. Explicitly your child. That is not just a blanket statement, it applies directly and personally to any and all minors you may have come into contact with. Kids are reliant on adults to be smart for them. (Which means a lot of them are doomed, but I digress). Children are our future, not our present. They may become great and wise leaders of humanity one day, but that day is not today, for today they are inept buffoons who can't figure out how to close the **** refrigerator.

A child's opinion on Star Wars does not count. They may be amused, and that's fine. I am happy that they are delighted. Their opinion does not count. These are the people who have to sing that **** song from Frozen three times per hour, every hour. But they can't actually sing the whole song. No! They can sing 3-5 lines from the song, out of order.

There is a certain bar one has to clear before their opinion matters. (Like being able to use "there" instead of "their," or at least being able to catch your damnyouautocorrect before someone else sees it and thinks you type like Ranelagh). Kids can't even see the bar without a step stool, let alone get over it unassisted.


Too snobby. This opinion does not count.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Adults tend to view children through rose colored glasses, because when we think of kids, we tend to think of our own first. Kids are dumb as a box of rocks. Yes, this includes your child. Explicitly your child. That is not just a blanket statement, it applies directly and personally to any and all minors you may have come into contact with. Kids are reliant on adults to be smart for them. (Which means a lot of them are doomed, but I digress). Children are our future, not our present. They may become great and wise leaders of humanity one day, but that day is not today, for today they are inept buffoons who can't figure out how to close the **** refrigerator.

A child's opinion on Star Wars does not count. They may be amused, and that's fine. I am happy that they are delighted. Their opinion does not count. These are the people who have to sing that **** song from Frozen three times per hour, every hour. But they can't actually sing the whole song. No! They can sing 3-5 lines from the song, out of order.

There is a certain bar one has to clear before their opinion matters. (Like being able to use "there" instead of "their," or at least being able to catch your damnyouautocorrect before someone else sees it and thinks you type like Ranelagh). Kids can't even see the bar without a step stool, let alone get over it unassisted.


I hate to break this to you, but this has nothing to do with kids being "dumb". They are not "dumb"; they're young.

And on matters that amount to make-believe, their opinion counts and yours doesn't. You pretty much don't get to argue. Make-believe is what being a kid is all about. If they're old enough to sit through Star Wars and not be terrified in the process, and young enough that they don't immediately start looking for plot holes to sound cool on the internet, their opinion matters.

I realize you don't have kids of your own, and therefore feel that its safe to criticize the parents for looking at their own kids in an excessively favorable light but the thing is that kids IN GENERAL love Star Wars- not just mine, Arathain's or Talya's. This is why there's so much merchandising of it - kids can genuinely lose themselves imagining that they're on the screen battling stormtroopers.

We can't do that anymore without a computer, or rulebooks and dice and snacks/pop/booze as you please.

So you're pretty much objectively wrong here.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:17 am 
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Anyone who thinks what "dumb" kids think doesn't have impact on what adults do hasn't been in a Toys'R'us, or to a Disney style theme park (etc...)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:52 am 
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Bah. Lots of stuff with a kernel of truth being said like it's an absolute here. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" (Isn't that an absolute?)

(1) If a movie or TV show is made only for children, then the opinions of children definitely should be used to help gage how good it is. As an adult, we're not in a good place to argue how well written Barney the Dinosaur is, because we're not the target audience. So it's certainly valid to look at how engrossed your kids are to help decide if the show's well written. If kids don't like it, it's not a good kids show.

(2) Even when a show is written only for kids, kids will watch the stupidest **** over, and over, and over again, it isn't necessarily a good indicator of quality. It may be a very bad show for kids due to content or even more subjective reasons, but kids will still watch it. Kids are not mentally developed yet, their crude senses of aesthetics are not adequate for judging quality. (This is part of the stupidity Corolinth was talking about.) However, the reverse is true as well... the lack of appeal of a kids show to adults does not indicate how well written it is for children. Parents may despise a show, but know from the start their kids will love it and get it for them.

(3) Star Wars was never, ever a kids show. It was a movie series with universal appeal - the primary target audience even back in 1977 were 18-35 year olds, but we loved it from ages 4 through 70. This is really the mark of brilliant writing - how universal is the appeal? It's not that you can't make a show inappropriate for children very good, but those old Looney Toons are loved by all ages, and we all laugh at different parts. Pixar and to a lesser extent Disney Studios are also brilliant at this - making incredibly deep shows targeted at kids, but adults get so much more out of them. Star Wars was like this - nearly everyone liked it (except Lenas - I think he has no soul) no matter our ages. Its appeal had no boundaries. The prequels do not have that. Sure, a few adults like them, but most of them end up despising them. It's pretty much the reverse of the originals, for whom a few outliers hated them, but nearly everyone else loved them. The appeal of the prequels is limited to a few outliers.

(4) Even little kids without preconceived biases can see this difference. My daughter was five or six when I first convinced her to sit down and watch the movies. I didn't give her any ideas of which were better. She watched all six eagerly (and now a few years later still carries a toy lightsaber around a lot) and loved them. However, shortly after watching them, she comes over to me and said, "Mommy, I think the movies with Luke were a lot better than the ones with Anakin." (That's my girl.) Let's not pretend there's any amount of equivalence here. While the prequels (particularly Episode III) had a few exciting moments, the episode number is generally inversely proportional to the sheer amount of shite they are made of (I'd say, Episode I was 90% crap, episode 2 was 60% crap, and Episode 3 was a bit higher than 30% crap). The originals were a non-stop joyride, and had pretty much no moments where you smack the heel of your palm into your forehead and think "That's so **** stupid." The prequels have those moments constantly.

Anyway, this argument is over. I have the high ground.

For the record, the Clone Wars cartoon series was far better than the prequel trilogy. If you don't absolutely despise the entire concept of the prequel trilogy, and want more star wars, they're WAY better written and acted than the movies. The new Star Wars Rebels series is even better yet, as it shares the writing and acting of the Clone Wars, but its focus is more closely reminiscent of the original movies. If you like ANY of Star Wars and haven't given them a shot, you're missing out.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:42 am 
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Talya wrote:
(3) Star Wars was never, ever a kids show. It was a movie series with universal appeal - the primary target audience even back in 1977 were 18-35 year olds, but we loved it from ages 4 through 70. This is really the mark of brilliant writing - how universal is the appeal? It's not that you can't make a show inappropriate for children very good, but those old Looney Toons are loved by all ages, and we all laugh at different parts. Pixar and to a lesser extent Disney Studios are also brilliant at this - making incredibly deep shows targeted at kids, but adults get so much more out of them. Star Wars was like this - nearly everyone liked it (except Lenas - I think he has no soul) no matter our ages. Its appeal had no boundaries. The prequels do not have that. Sure, a few adults like them, but most of them end up despising them. It's pretty much the reverse of the originals, for whom a few outliers hated them, but nearly everyone else loved them. The appeal of the prequels is limited to a few outliers.


Whether Star Wars is a "kid's show" is largely irrelevant - no, it's not specifically or exclusively for kids, but kids are the only ones that can look at it with unbiased eyes. A "kids show" is something like the aforementioned Barney - which is not an appropriate comparison. The type of "kids" Star Wars is aimed at are already too old for Barney. Barney-age children will find SW frightening and confusing and won't have a clue what's going on. A 9-year old has been too old for Barney for 5 years or so, and they ARE starting to develop senses of taste, quality, and aesthetics.

As adults, we tend to look at everything in the newer movies through the lens of how awesome IV-VI were when we saw them as kids. Young adults that wedge in there as too young to have seen the originals but who were also entering middle school or a bit older by the time Ep I. came out generally are the ones who really don't know much about and don't care about Star Wars, period. That's because they went through that younger child phase in time when Star Wars was somewhat dormant, before the prequels revived mass awareness and the child-oriented merchandizing such as the LEGO line.

Most adults do not "despise" the prequels either; most adults agree they were overall not as good as the original trilogy. Episode I is the only one that a plurality can generally be said to truly dislike; II gets lukewarm reactions and specific criticism of Anakin in particular (which isn't entirely fair seeing as Anakin is supposed to be a rather traumatized teenager who really has never had the opportunity to socialize normally with peers his own age) and most people think III was overall pretty good. Most of your criticisms of the prequels are over-the-top hyperbole of what the average adult actually thinks.

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(4) Even little kids without preconceived biases can see this difference. My daughter was five or six when I first convinced her to sit down and watch the movies. I didn't give her any ideas of which were better. She watched all six eagerly (and now a few years later still carries a toy lightsaber around a lot) and loved them. However, shortly after watching them, she comes over to me and said, "Mommy, I think the movies with Luke were a lot better than the ones with Anakin." (That's my girl.) Let's not pretend there's any amount of equivalence here. While the prequels (particularly Episode III) had a few exciting moments, the episode number is generally inversely proportional to the sheer amount of shite they are made of (I'd say, Episode I was 90% crap, episode 2 was 60% crap, and Episode 3 was a bit higher than 30% crap). The originals were a non-stop joyride, and had pretty much no moments where you smack the heel of your palm into your forehead and think "That's so **** stupid." The prequels have those moments constantly.


Kids will grow and learn and will eventually come to recognize the weaknesses of the prequels just as they will any movie. As a little kid you won't recognize that somehow the Millenium Falcon was able to travel from Hoth to Anoat to Bespin systems without hyperdrive. As you get older, you'll wonder about that. As you get even older or if you're more of a fan, though, you'll recognize a "plot hole" is not needed to explain this - Either the systems are rather close together and the Millenium Falcon flew a lot of it at relativistic velocity, allowing Luke a few months or years of training with Yoda (both occurring offscreen) or else SW has some other, lesser means of FTL propulsion that we never hear about because its only used in emergencies and most of the time hyperdrive is way better.

A little kid can't really understand why Anakin's teenage interactions with Amidala are so awkward. They might pick up on that later on, but it will never seem as bad, even when they grow up, because if you are 9 when you first see Ep II all you see is the adventure and excitement and that happy memory will always be there. If you were 26 when you first saw it and were cringing at how awkward his lines are, you'll always see it with that first impression in the back of your mind. It's basically "primacy effect".

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:48 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
As a little kid you won't recognize that somehow the Millenium Falcon was able to travel from Hoth to Anoat to Bespin systems without hyperdrive. As you get older, you'll wonder about that.


Some book I read as a kid that talked about the technology of Empire Strikes Back (it came out around the same time or even before the movie did) indicated that it was standard for freighters to have "backup hyperdrives." These systems were rarely used because (a) they were so slow that what would take hours normally would take weeks, (b) they left easy to follow trails, (and since they were so slow, people tracking could figure out your trajectory and beat you there even if they left much later) and (c) they wore out after one or two uses, like the spare "donut" tire in the trunk of your car, so this never got around to bothering me.

Anyway, I had the high ground, man. You're lucky I'm nicer than Obi-Wan and didn't just decide to cut your legs off. You learned nothing from Revenge of the Sith. NOTHING.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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Last edited by Talya on Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:52 am 
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Talya wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
As a little kid you won't recognize that somehow the Millenium Falcon was able to travel from Hoth to Anoat to Bespin systems without hyperdrive. As you get older, you'll wonder about that.


Some book I read as a kid that talked about the technology of Empire Strikes Back (it came out around the same time or even before the movie did) indicated that it was standard for freighters to have "backup hyperdrives." These systems were rarely used because (a) they were so slow that what would take hours normally would take weeks in hyperdrive, (b) they left easy to follow trails, and (c) they wore out after one or two uses, like the spare "donut" tire in the trunk of your car, so this never got around to bothering me.


It makes good sense for ships to have backups of critical systems like a hyperdrive; had they included 2 or 3 lines of dialogue in the movie to that effect it would have been great. It's amazing how many plot holes could be closed with 15 seconds of effort.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:54 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
It makes good sense for ships to have backups of critical systems like a hyperdrive; had they included 2 or 3 lines of dialogue in the movie to that effect it would have been great. It's amazing how many plot holes could be closed with 15 seconds of effort.


Yes. This is my issue with Starkiller Base in TFA. I'm hopeful there are explanations already thought of by the writers before the movie was ever released...but I want to know them. If J.J. ends up giving a canon explanation that doesn't sound like he came up with it to explain his own plot hole, but rather that dialogue that would have explained things ended up trimmed and dropped on the cutting room floor, I'll be very happy.

(Not that I'm not already happy with the new movie. I just have a few small issues.)

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:32 pm 
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Episode VIII postponed 7 months

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/20/media/s ... =obnetwork


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:11 am 
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If it needs it then that's good. I'd rather them get it right.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:16 pm 
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The next Pirates movie is going to come out in May, so they pushed SW back to December. Not surprised after the December they just had with VII.

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