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Spoiled by the Last Jedi
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Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Spoiled by the Last Jedi
Spoilers ahead!

What'd you all think? It's late, and so I'm gonna go to bed without typing a big long post, but let's discuss.

I'll kick it off by saying that I felt like Rian Johnson did well to not mirror the tone too closely, and I vastly appreciated that his parallels felt like (often sensible from an in-universe perspective) homages more than following a blueprint. Things like the way the old gear they dusted off for the command room on the snow planet looked a lot like Hoth gear, or the way Luke and Rey's official training both began with the masters they sought basically trying to drive them off for one reason or another.

I also really appreciated the thoughtfulness of including a WWII style bombing run (with bombers that actually resemble bombers instead of old dogfighters that inexplicably have torpedoes) there at the beginning. It's the kind of thing Lucas would have loved and drawn inspiration from, and I was glad to see that even with the Mouse in charge and calling the shots, somebody's approaching this from the perspective of "What are the GOOD ideas and inspirations Lucas would use here?"
Author:  Caleria [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoiled by the Last Jedi
I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to seeing it again.

It wasn't without it's flaws. There were a couple of huge WTF moments (Leia's 'skywalking' back to the ship being the biggest), but overall, it was great. There were quite a few moments that made me want to stand up and cheer. And judging from the responses of the crowd, I wasn't the only one. When Holdo performed her 'hyperspace torpedo' move, there were a lot of gasps from the audience, even a few whispered "WOW!" comments. The visuals from that scene, and several others, were just spectacular.

I really like where they are going with the story, so far. Kylo is now almost fully dark, but he still has some light in him. And Rey is fully light, but she has some dark, and she's not afraid of it. I really think that, in the end, they are going to have to come together, and balance each other out, in some way. And it will start a new era in Force users. No longer Jedi, or Sith, but something more, that's no longer defined by old, out dated dichotomies. A sort of Grey Jedi, if you will. And speaking of Force users -- did you notice the kid with the broom, at the end?!?! Holy cow, that was pretty cool.

I also really like that they are passing the proverbial torch to this new generation of heroes. Han's gone, and now, so is Luke. And we know that Leia (or at least Carrie Fisher) won't play a big role in Episode 9, now. So it really falls on the shoulders of Rey, Finn, & Poe, to save the galaxy, this time. Okay, maybe with a little help from Chewie (& Lando possibly???).

I also really liked the parallels with ESB & ROTJ. Everyone was expecting more of a direct mirror of ESB (kinda like how TFA was a mirror of ANH) but Rian Johnson kind of flipped those expectations on their heads. I loved that. I also liked how, at least for now, Rey's parents were not anyone we know. Everyone was trying to figure out who her parents were, and why she was so powerful, but in the end, her parents were not anyone special. Her lineage didn't matter, in the end. Which is kind of nice, because we've already had 8 movies about the Skywalkers. Now it's time for a changing of the guard, so to speak.

Did anyone else notice the Jedi books in the drawer on the Falcon? That's why Yoda burned down the tree before Luke could, so that he wouldn't know that Rey took them. Yoda even says something along the lines of, "Already has, all that she needs from here." God that was such a Yoda thing to do - I loved it! Along with him hitting Luke in the head with his cane, one more time.

Can't wait to see it again!
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, the Yoda/books thing was nice. I had noticed the books, but hadn't made the connection that Yoda was covering for their absence when he preempted Luke. Nice call, it fits well, so I think that's a safe read.

I felt like Luke keeling over from exhaustion was a bit of a cheap shot, mostly because of the double pump-fake they did, and how it really kind of undermined the whole "facing Ben down remotely" thing. I was completely ready for Luke to die, and was fine with it. His line to Ben about "If you strike me down in anger, I'll stay with you like your father" preps him pulling an Obi-Wan, and had me mentally prepared for it, great. Then, they reveal the illusion along with the "See you around" line, which was delivered in such a way as to feel like it was priming me to get excited about more badassery from Luke in at least part of the third movie. And then they cut to Luke just kind of dying arbitrarily because of some rule that hadn't been set-up before hand, and that was disappointing, and felt less meaningful than if he had actually raised his X-Wing and flown to their aid in person, to be struck down directly Obi-Wan style.

I'm also mildly miffed about the Rey parentage reveal. The numbered episodes are about lineage, legacy, and destiny. You shouldn't create mysterious orphans and then have the mystery turn out to be inconsequential. That would be fine in a spin-off Star Wars movie, but it's grossly unsatisfying in the Skywalker legacy. I was pulling for one of her parents being Obi-Wan's long-lost love child (born of a romance we could then see in the upcoming spinoff!) or something. It would have been better for her to just be a normal person with a family in her past, or even an orphan who remembered her parents and knew the truth from the start. Any of those three would have been acceptable approaches for me in the main series; they picked the least satisfying fourth option in the "everything is interconnected around this Force-strong family" saga that is the Skywalker saga.
Author:  Caleria [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
I felt like Luke keeling over from exhaustion was a bit of a cheap shot, mostly because of the double pump-fake they did, and how it really kind of undermined the whole "facing Ben down remotely" thing. I was completely ready for Luke to die, and was fine with it. His line to Ben about "If you strike me down in anger, I'll stay with you like your father" preps him pulling an Obi-Wan, and had me mentally prepared for it, great. Then, they reveal the illusion along with the "See you around" line, which was delivered in such a way as to feel like it was priming me to get excited about more badassery from Luke in at least part of the third movie. And then they cut to Luke just kind of dying arbitrarily because of some rule that hadn't been set-up before hand, and that was disappointing, and felt less meaningful than if he had actually raised his X-Wing and flown to their aid in person, to be struck down directly Obi-Wan style.


Well, they did....kinda. When Kylo and Rey first "projected" to each other, Kylo told her, "You aren't the one doing this. It would kill you." So, there's that. But also, in each of there projection interactions, there is at least some form of physical manifestation. They touch hands, or Kylo gets water on his gloves from the rain. So the fact that Luke is able to project AND not take any damage from the walkers OR a direct lightsaber swing & stab, shows that he is truly on a whole different level. I could see how it would be very taxing, for him. Also, I was emotional when Luke passed, but I was happy to see him go out while staring in to another double sunset. It really showed how his life had come full circle. It was very touching.

As far as the projection goes, they did leave several clues that he wasn't really there. Kylo left footprints in the salt, whereas Luke did not. Also, Luke's projection was younger looking, and looked more like the last time Ben had seen him, than the older version we saw with Rey. Also, he was using his old blue saber, that Kylo and Rey had just destroyed, instead of his green one.

Quote:
I'm also mildly miffed about the Rey parentage reveal. The numbered episodes are about lineage, legacy, and destiny. You shouldn't create mysterious orphans and then have the mystery turn out to be inconsequential. That would be fine in a spin-off Star Wars movie, but it's grossly unsatisfying in the Skywalker legacy. I was pulling for one of her parents being Obi-Wan's long-lost love child (born of a romance we could then see in the upcoming spinoff!) or something. It would have been better for her to just be a normal person with a family in her past, or even an orphan who remembered her parents and knew the truth from the start. Any of those three would have been acceptable approaches for me in the main series; they picked the least satisfying fourth option in the "everything is interconnected around this Force-strong family" saga that is the Skywalker saga.


Another thing to keep in mind with this, Kylo could have been manipulating her. All we know is that Kylo told her they were "nobody" and she saw no one but herself in the dark mirror. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they will try to pull the wool over our eyes and change things up in Episode 9.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Luke flicking dust off his robe. Priceless. Perfect, quintessential movie badass moment.

Hyperspace Torpedo. Perfect. The choice there to cut all sound when she jumps to lightspeed and let the audience bask in the visuals...

Yoda. Perfect. "Page turners they were not."

Rose and Finn. Rose was adorable and amazing.

Space Nazi Weasley was almost gleeful with the chewing of every scene he was in.

The New AT-ATs were terrifying.

The Ren/Rey fight after Ren smoked Snoke was one of the best fights in the entire Tri-Trilogy (Nonilogy?).

The red/white effects on Krait (I think it was?) beautiful.

Luke dying? I'm ok with it. He burned out every last one of his force points, as well as every last one of his destiny points. He was probably burning CON to keep it going.

Kylo is a chump. ;)
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, Caleria, I'm now on the "hopefully Kylo is manipulating her" bandwagon. The same thing occurred to me.

And, as a connoisseur of lightsabers, I instantly noticed he had the wrong saber in the first full-body shot. Or, rather, I glimpsed it, went "Wait, that looked wrong. Did the prop people screw up?" And then the footprints and browner beard pushed me over the edge to the solution. I had initially thought it was a continuity screw-up, though.

That's a good point with the "it would kill you" line -- I'll soften, but not fully retract, my argument about it not being in the rules. It's apparently a new rule that came out of nowhere after 8 prior movies and all kinds of EU, both discarded and current. So in the context of the movie, I guess I can't call it cheap, but in the context of the broader world-building, it still feels a bit so. And I still don't feel like the payoff of the double-sunset (which I also appreciated on its own merits) merited the lengths they went to have him not show up in person in the first place.

Müs, the red plumes on the salt planet were absolutely stunning. Almost enough to make me forgive the outrageously dumb design of the ski-speeders.

All of which, don't get me wrong, are minor quibbles on my part. It's still a worthy entry into the franchise, and easily beats the median by any standard. I absolutely hope Rian gets to keep IX out of Abrams' hands, given their respective efforts.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
My one huge takeaway on this though...

There wasn't a single "Really movie? This is where you're taking us? Really?" moment in the whole thing.

(as opposed to say... Kong: Skull Island. That movie was *aggressively* stupid.)

It was so so nice to have a movie that had vibrant and real colors and contrast. Everything popped and wasn't a muddy mess of teals and oranges ;) Lighting was brilliant, cinematography, awesome, sound design and soundtracks... CGI was pretty seamless...

I didn't expect to like it as much as I did. If I could, I'd be watching it again right now.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
There was a "Really movie?" moment. Leia Force Flying through the vacuum of space after the explosion of her bridge made me audibly groan and facepalm.

I also question why nobody has ever used kamikaze ships (even smaller ones -- the A-Wing can destroy an SSD bridge at sublight speeds) as a cap-killer before, or if they had, why no Admiralty in the series employs defensive measures against it.

I rolled my eyes when Laura Dern's character is introduced as Vice Admiral, yet the only one in the room NOT wearing a uniform. Apparently, it was casual Friday for the flag officership's office. It soured me so much on her character (and their shoddy idea of discipline and leadership in a military setting) that I was cheering on the mutiny, and visibly deflated and let down when she had a plan that wasn't utter garbage all along.

Speaking of her plan, where did all this cloaking technology come from!? Apparently, in the 30 years between VI and VII, the Klingons joined the Resistance.
Author:  RangerDave [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoiled by the Last Jedi
All I can say is, "Rian Johnson...
Spoiler:
Image
Author:  Müs [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, maybe the Leia force flying thing was a bit "Really?", but I forgave it as she *is* a skywalker. ;)

As for the Kamikaze thing, I'm guessing it was so effective because it was a Mon Cal Cruiser converted to energy at a respectable fraction of lightspeed. And even then it didn't completely destroy Snoke's ship.

The uniform thing was questionable, but they *did* just come from an evacuation, and maybe her uniform was in the laundry.

I think of the "cloak" as more strict EMCON, and less visual cloaking. They moved away under the cover of the Cruiser, and only when the Codebreaker gave them away did they actually actively look for them.
Author:  Numbuk [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoiled by the Last Jedi
A lot of people upset over the Force being used in a way previously unseen. I'm fine with it. We see Force Move and Force Jump in ESB, which we hadn't seen in ANH. Nobody cared. We see Force Lightning in ROTJ which we hadn't seen in either previous movies. Nobody cared. We see Force Speed in TPM which we hadn't seen in previous movies. Nobody cared. We see some sort of Force Absorbtion/Reflection in AotC that we hadn't seen in any previous movies. Nobody cared.

The Force is pretty massive and powerful. Maxi Big! I'm fine with showing new things that aren't completely crazy that we haven't seen in previous movies

As for Leia and her force stuff, well, it's been well established that when a force sensitive person is in peril that it can be called upon in desperation, even if they are untrained. And the Force is strong in Luke's family. His father had it. He had it. And... his sister has it. Completely jives with canon.

And I am glad Yoda was more puppet-Yoda than CGI-Yoda (though I suppose he could be CGI-Puppet-Yoda).

I like that it wasn't a rehash of ESB. I also like that Rey's parents aren't anyone of note (Ren could be lying, but I am betting and hoping he's not). For people that complain that this is a series about the Skywalker family, well, you still have that with Kylo Ren.

Good movie. I look forward to what Johnson will cook up with the trilogy Disney has granted him with, one that is completely unrelated to anything we've seen before in the Star Wars galaxy (though I was sad to learn it is not going to be Old Republic).

Edit: Oh! And I am glad Rian closed off the whole "Snoke" thread that Abrams started. Because I guarantee Abrams pulled Snoke out of his *** with zero backstory and zero clue where to go with it, as he is wont to do.
Author:  FarSky [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I loved the fact that Rey’s parents were nobodies. So much more interesting and less myopic than having her be related to Luke, or Obi-Wan, or any of the other five or so main characters we’ve been stuck with for the past 40 years.

Snoke is dead, and with his death came the solidification of Kylo Ren into a legitimately great character. “Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.” Indeed.

The “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi” video made my breath catch in my throat.

I adored THE FORCE AWAKENS, but was left cold every time it went back to the older characters. This film had a much better handle on how to use them. It helps that Harrison Ford’s not around to stink things up anymore.

I love that Ren is now a legitimate threat, but is still conflicted. Likewise, Rey’s got darkness in her, but she’s unafraid of it.

I was convinced that Space Dern was going to become New Leia, given Carrie Fisher’s death. Their conversation where Space Dern approved of Poe felt like a perfect passing of the baton. And given that I like Laura Dern, I was dismayed when I realized she was really going to stay behind and die. But godDAMN she went out like a ****’ BOSS.

This was not THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. It was better.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree on "Space Dern", 'Skeee. GOMH.

I feel like Kotaku hit the nail on the head when it came to the awful antics on the casino planet in the middle (and the pointless run-around that got us back to square one just to kill time it represented) in their article "One of Star Wars: The Last Jedi's Biggest Problems Comes Straight From Video Games".
Author:  Raell [ Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
1. While it was in one of the EU books that Luke was able to slow down his breathing and heart rate to conserve power for life support, the Leia spacewalk kind of bothered me. While impressive, suddenly getting sucked out into space in an explosive manner should have been too much for her. Up until now, she had displayed very little to no ability to use the Force. Outside of her 'feelings'. Also, when she passed away...it was the perfect way to go, they do not have her for the next film and they have already said, she will not be a CGI character.

2. Holding for General Hux...really? That was **** horrible. This isn't Star Trek were we talk for days before shooting at each other. They should have blasted his *** to dust the moment he was in weapons range.

3. Luke died...**** you. I've been waiting damn near my whole life to see him in action again. Master Skywalker, all the things we read about in the books, all the things they could not do in the old movies. Yes, the EU is gone...I get it. So we get one good sequence where we see what could have been Luke in the depths of his own power and then he expires after. I damn near cheered when he said "See you around kid." then poof...**** you.

4. No way Luke Skywalker kills someone in their sleep. Yes, he stopped himself but the fact that he even considered it, so far out of character it isn't even funny.

5. Some of the Yoda dialog bothered me but that was minor.

I enjoyed the movie over all but it was the little things that took me out of it.
Author:  Lonedar [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Raell wrote:
3. Luke died...**** you. I've been waiting damn near my whole life to see him in action again. Master Skywalker, all the things we read about in the books, all the things they could not do in the old movies. Yes, the EU is gone...I get it. So we get one good sequence where we see what could have been Luke in the depths of his own power and then he expires after. I damn near cheered when he said "See you around kid." then poof...**** you.


This sums up the unhappiness in the pit of my soul after watching the movie. Luke shrugging off a massive barrage = satisfying. Luke's projection, not so much, for me.

I also mixed on Finn's storyline. It was entertaining, but pretty much pointless. Might be jaded by finding Rose annoying.

But, complaining is easier than praising. Loved the use of color on Crait. Made me think of "Hero" only without Jet Li and on another planet. Hyperspace torpedo was epic. Poe's starting to learn how to be a leader and more than just the most badass pilot was great. General Poe in episode 9. Looking forward to how Leia is addressed.
Author:  FarSky [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
TIL that the little Force-sensitive kid at the end of The Last Jedi is played by a boy whose real name is “Temirlan Blaev” and holy **** kid you already have a Star Wars name.
Author:  Numbuk [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoiled by the Last Jedi
Luke considering going on the offensive for Kylo is consistent. Firstly, the Dark Side isn't something that once you overcome it you're good and immune to its promptings forever.

Luke spends all his time training with Yoda, and Yoda even tells him specifically that "A Jedi uses The Force for knowledge and defense. Never attack." (Not "sometimes." "NEVER.") And, not 24 hours later on Bespin... Guess who ignites his lightsaber first? And then guess who also takes the first swing?

Then, in ROTJ, Luke thinks he's mastered it all. He's cool and calm, thinking he can head into the lion's den and be fine. And for the most part, he's right. The Emperor then starts poking at him and goading him, and then Luke does exactly what the Emperor wants and attempts to kill him (he was actually attempting to murder an unarmed man, simply because he was Dark Side incarnate... hmmm. echoes of TLJ much?). Then later Vader keeps prodding until he finds the right trigger. And again, Luke goes full-on attack. Rage-filled, I'magunkillYOU attack. The only thing that stops him is seeing his father's cybernetic hand like his own, and a stark reminder of who he is becoming.

I can see Luke being afraid of a vast dark side resurgence and then, even if ever so briefly, wanting to attack it. The fact it was as fleeting as it was is still proof to me that he's come a very long way toward mastery.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with 'Buk. Basically everything about Luke (except for the cruel tease of "See you around, kid" followed by not getting to fulfill that in any satisfactory way next movie -- because finger-wagging and guilt-tripping as a Force ghost isn't satisfactory) was spot-on, for me. Perhaps my one other gripe is that, for all that Yoda claims "We become what they grow beyond" or whatever, Yoda is still propped up as the font of wisdom in the way he appears to continue to lecture Luke (and preempt him fearing what he'd do if he discovered Rey stole the books)... contradicting his statement because, if it were true, Luke is two generations of student-surpassing-master removed from Yoda.

Which would be fine if Luke wasn't done with his growth, and had more to do in Episode IX. But dying here negates that.
Author:  Raell [ Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:49 am ]
Post subject: 
SO, while I can see the logic in what you are saying brother Ogre, had this film taken place a year or even two years after Return of the Jedi, I would agree with you. It has been thirty years, he should have cooled off. Learned from the mistakes he made as a young man. Not been so impulsive.

So...where are the other students that ran off with Ben? Luke said some of them ran off with him, he didn't kill them all.
Author:  Caleria [ Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Raell wrote:
So...where are the other students that ran off with Ben? Luke said some of them ran off with him, he didn't kill them all.


I got the impression that they were the Knights of Ren. Didn't Rey's force vision from TFA show Kylo standing in the rain with several ominous looking guys behind him? I think these were the 'students' he left with, that eventually became the Knights of Ren. Which I was really hoping we would find out more about in this film.

It's kinda like Lucas teasing us with the enigmatic phrase 'the Clone Wars' in ANH, all those years ago. Nobody knew what the hell old Ben was talking about, but boy, did it sound cool.

In fact, I think that's probably my biggest gripe with TLJ. We came into it with so many questions:

Who were Rey's parents?
Who were the Knights of Ren?
Who exactly is Snoke, and where has he been hiding all these years?

And none of them were answered appropriately. In fact, I think I walked out of the theater with MORE questions than I went in with. But if that's my biggest complaint, I think I can live with that. There's always the chance that all of these questions get a satisfactory answer in Episode 9.
Author:  FarSky [ Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Caleria wrote:
In fact, I think that's probably my biggest gripe with TLJ. We came into it with so many questions:

Who were Rey's parents?
Who were the Knights of Ren?
Who exactly is Snoke, and where has he been hiding all these years?

And none of them were answered appropriately.

I think that's the thing, though. They were answered (well, not the Knights of Ren thing, but I think it's a fair assumption that they are they missing students). Who were Rey's parents? They were nobodies. No matter how much Rey (and the audience) wanted there to be some grand plan, some cosmic design to her abandonment, there wasn't...they were just garbage people who sold her off and left her to rot. She likely has a great destiny ahead of her, but it's on her to step up, and not leave it up to some predetermined familial promise.

Who was Snoke? It...doesn't matter. He was an Evil Space Wizard who dressed like Space Hugh Hefner and was strong in the Force and wanted to space-conquer space things. It doesn't matter where he came from, or what his backstory was...he was just an evil guy who wanted to rule and stuff. I've seen so many fan theories about him, and people were convinced that he was a character we already knew, that there was some great twist and he was going to be Anakin Skywalker (surprise!) or Palpatine reborn (surprise!) or (my personal favorite for goofy fan theories) Leia (dun dun dunnnn!).

The whole movie was about disappointment and the death (and rebirth) of hope. It forced its characters to own up to their mistakes (Luke), stand on their own two feet instead of propping themselves up with "destiny" or "preordination" (Rey), or gain resolve, step forward, and move closer to their goals (Ben). It's comforting to think that you can't lose because you're the Good Guy or the Chosen One, that fate or whatever has picked you and the outcome is fait accompli. It's a lot more dangerous, and scary, and most importantly interesting to say "No, you're on your own. Your fate is what you make." That's one of the things this film did so well...it constantly raised the stakes, and ripped away the safety net of thinking this trilogy was going to just be another redo of the OG trilogy.

I hope(!) to the heavens that when Abrams returns for Episode IX, he doesn't undo all of the revelations of The Last Jedi. Not only would it be exceptionally cheap ("Oh, no, Kylo Ren was just lying! You're actually a Super Special Chosen One person." "Uhhh, yeah, Snoke was actually a hologram the whole time and didn't die and was the secret third Skywalker sibling all along!"), but also...that's boring, and repetitive, and trite. The great strength of The Last Jedi is that it resolved Abrams' damnable Mystery Box style of storytelling, answering those hanging questions and saying "OK...where do we go from here?" The Force Awakens, which I greatly enjoyed outside of pretty much anything to do with Han, was a necessary course-correct from the dour, largely incompetent prequels (though Revenge of the Sith is better than Return of the Jedi, sorry). But this is what Star Wars needed now: to shake off the past, create something new, and forge ahead into a scary, uncharted future.
Author:  Ulfynn [ Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mixed, but overall I thought it was fun and I like that it's theme seemed to be about forging ahead vs. reliving the past.

Good: Luke, Rey, Kylo.

Bad: Finn and Rose (the entire casino thing...ugh), Holdo (other than hyperspace kamakaze, which was epic).

Indifferent to the other characters at this point.

They've now established that Force ghosts can interact with the physical world, a la Yoda's bonfire. We could get to see Luke in 'action' once more as something other than the Force's spectral Dear Abby.

I'm not that stoked that Abrams is back at the helm, but 'it is what it is'.
Author:  Numbuk [ Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Ulfynn wrote:
They've now established that Force ghosts can interact with the physical world, a la Yoda's bonfire.


Obi-Wan sat on a log in ROTJ, and Yoda sat on a fence.
Author:  Ulfynn [ Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Numbuk wrote:
Ulfynn wrote:
They've now established that Force ghosts can interact with the physical world, a la Yoda's bonfire.


Obi-Wan sat on a log in ROTJ, and Yoda sat on a fence.


ha! Ok, granted. But TLJ seems to be the first film depiction of them affecting the physical realm in a dramatic way.

I wanted to clarify something else about my previous post. I was too vague in my good/bad lists. I meant that the parts of TLJ's story that focused on those characters was good/bad; not that they are bad characters, per se.

It came across feeling like they had no clue what to do with Finn. So, he and Rose (who seemed randomly inserted to give Finn an accomplice) set out on this Casino thing that was rather preposterous IMO, given the situation.

I loved the whole thing with 'broken warrior' Luke trying to rid himself of Rey, finally relenting and sharing his wisdom, filtered through disillusionment. And I liked that Rey would not relent when faced of Luke's repeated dismissals.

Also: salt speeders (or w/e they are called) - the Bumber Cars of battle vehicles.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't have been so annoyed with the Canto Bight scene if Rose and Finn had had any productive, or even meaningful, interactions with anybody there. They basically just show up there so the camera can pan around on a casino scene that they're essentially audience-proxy spectators for. Which is just made even more glaringly obvious by their arrest for naively mis-parking in the most absurd way possible.

And then, of course, their escape sequence on the space-ponies was just so much pandering to little children who Disney wants to dream of space-ponies so they can expand their MLP line of products into a Star Wars offshoot brand.
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