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| A few Comic questions https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7549 |
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| Author: | Uncle Fester [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | A few Comic questions |
Ok going back through my DC history, the endless retcons and stuff have me confused so was Alan Scott, the original Green Lantern a member of the Green Lantern corp? Was his Lantern one of theirs (an advanced tech item) or an actual magic item? Secondly what finally ended up as Hawkman's back story? Is he an alien, reincarnation of an alien?, crazy guy with items? Hawk God? |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Alan Scott was not a member of the intergalactic Green Lantern Corps. His lantern was a magical item, as was his ring; its non-association with the Corps' Green Lanterns accounts for its weakness to wood, instead of yellow. I know next to nothing about Hawkman, but that reincarnation of an alien thing sounds familiar. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A few Comic questions |
That's easy ... 1. Blame Dan Didio. 2. Blame Grant Morrison. Hawkman is Carter Hall, the reincarnated form of Khufu (thank you, Smallville, by the way for this decision on canon). The Katar Hol from Thanagar and the whole Thanagarian thing was a bad idea from the start. Of course, I should probably be more specific, since this is actually terribly convoluted and one of the most frustrating continuity things ... Katar Hol is the Silver Age Hawkman and a separate character from Carter Hall, who is the current and Golden Age Hawkman. Thanagar exists; Katar Hol exists; Katar Hol is not Carter Hall; Carter Hall is Hawkman. Shayera's identity is a little more fuzzy, but current continuity is going with the Egyptian mythology start on her, too. |
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| Author: | Uncle Fester [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A few Comic questions |
So originally Carter Hall, was the Hawkman from ancient Egypt that interacted with Teth-Adam back when he was Shazam's first champion? Then He was the golden age Hawkman, to vanish for a while for the Thanagarian Hawkman from the silver age, to be replaced with the past, and now current Hawkman? Do I have that right? No wonder TV tropes uses Hawkman as the picture for the "continuity snarl" trope |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A few Comic questions |
Yes, that's mostly correct. The biggest reason it's got Continuity Snarl written all over it? Dan Didio and Grant Morrison. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A few Comic questions |
I mean, seriously ... It kind of works like this. Katar Hol is the Son of Paran Katar and Naomi (a Native American Shaman of some consequence). Consequently, he's half Thanagarian and Half-Human. And the witnesses to the "spiritual marriage" of Paran Katar and Naomi? Carter and Shiera Hall, who ever amusingly Hawkman and Hawkwoman at the time. The Golden Age Carter Hall dies with Shiera, much the way they both end up dead in Smallville. Katar Hol takes over as the Silver Age Hawkman. And, as the Silver Age Hawkman, he's probably the one everyone knows the best, even if all the gadgets and widgets are identical to Carter's. In any case, Crisis on Infinite Earths Happens ... Katar Hol ceases to be Hawkman, but then Zero Hour happens and he's Hawkman again ... Except, ALL incarnations of Hawkman, including a couple of Elseworld's variants, get merged into one being ... with all their personalities. And then he goes insane and gets banished. Well, for Infinite Crisis, Carter comes back (based on Smallville plans) as Hawkman. Katar Hol's soul dies in the place where the Hawkgod version died. But, because Carter needs a permanent body, he gets a slightly modified (riced out no joke) version of Katar Hol's. |
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| Author: | Uncle Fester [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Makes Power Girls back story look consistent in comparison. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Uncle Fester wrote: Makes Power Girls back story look consistent in comparison. It's really not as inconsistent as it seems, but it requires too much reading to parse in most cases. There are no points in Continuity where Carter Hall and Katar Hol are both Hawkman on Earth at the same time, unless you want to count the Hawk God variant. The problem, however, is Crisis on Infinite Earths. DC's Continuity got mucked up in the late 60s and 70s when they went all Claremont on the multi-universe thing.
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| Author: | Uncle Fester [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
who would you say has the most confusing, re-done, contradictory back story? In either DC or Marvel? |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A few Comic questions |
Oh, and Alan Scott ... Well, I guess this starts with Power Rings. The various Power Rings created by the Guardians of OA are sentient and quite capable of determining who is worthy and who is not worthy of using them. For instance, Kal El can use a Power Ring; J'onn J'onnz can use a Power Ring; Wonder Woman can use a Power Ring; Wally West can use a Power Ring (but Barry Allen can't); and Batman can use a Power Ring (he was the Ring's first choice by the by. Abin Sur chose Hal because Hal's Great Grandfather saved Abin Sur's life). In any case, there are now 7 colors of rings (White, Black, Blue, Yellow, Red, Orange, Green), and the rings have "user" checks so to speak. Black is Death, so you have to be Dead. Red is Rage, so it checks your anger reserves, yada yada yada ... The official on canon on Alan Scott for Crises is that ... Yalan Kur was the first Human Lantern, but he used the ring to subjugate China; consequently, the Ring's impurity was changed from Fear to Wood (the most abundant source of weapons on Earth at the time); when Yalan Kur died, the Ring was turned into the Knight Fragment (which comes back into Play in DC 1000000). The Knight Fragment being the mythical piece of ore from which the first Ring was crafted, but that's a bit complex. The history of the Lantern that Alan Scott possesses happens as he remembers it, except the original "meteor" from back during the Chinese prophecy days was the Ring itself saying it would choose its next successor. And it does ... |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Uncle Fester wrote: who would you say has the most confusing, re-done, contradictory back story? In either DC or Marvel? Wolverine or Professor X ...You figure out which between the two. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:57 pm ] |
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Most of Prof's problems only have to do with floating timelines I thought. |
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| Author: | Wwen [ Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:04 pm ] |
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Since DC said "**** it, this **** is too confusing. Let's just reboot everything?" I'd just not worry about it. YMMV. |
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