The Glade 4.0

The only people behaving in the "typical Khrossian" way are you and Diamondeye, Hopwin.

Let me know when either of you want to discuss the facts of the game systems. Oh, and here's another complaint ...

Why even have classes when every character ends up functionally identical except for appearance and HP total?

The fact that monsters and other enemies level up at the same time as your character leads to the "leveling problem". If you make poor choices in leveling up, your character will become relatively weaker than the monsters as your level progresses. Therefore a given situation in the game will become harder rather than easier, even though you would expect the same situation to be easier for higher-level characters.

There are several strategies for overcoming the leveling problem. One is to never let your character sleep, resulting in your character never leveling up (as described at Under Leveling). Another is to just decrease the game's difficulty slider.

On the other hand, it is possible to play to high levels and have your character constantly become stronger than the enemies. To accomplish this, it is necessary to take maximum advantage of every bonus that is available to your character when you level up. In general, this requires careful planning from the time you start the game, because many of these advantages are only available with specific character creation choices.

Furthermore, some +5 attribute bonuses are not possible without a custom character class. For example, take the standard Warrior class. Ideally, a fighter type character will want to obtain +5 attribute bonuses in both Endurance and Strength. However, that is impossible with the Warrior class. To obtain the two +5 attribute bonuses requires 20 skill advancements in the skills governed by endurance and strength, i.e., in some combination of Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor, Blade, Blunt, and Hand to Hand. But because all six of those skills are class major skills, as soon as 10 skill advancements are obtained, the character will level up. You have to choose between trying to get +5 in just one of these attributes (and then perhaps getting +5 in an attribute that is much less useful to a fighter-type character), or getting two +3 attribute bonuses.

Similar problems are encountered with any standard class. In all cases the class's chosen attributes - which a character would presumably want to maximize, cannot get +5 attribute bonuses, because the majority of the skills governed by that attribute are major skills. At least one skill governed by an attribute must be a minor skill to enable consistent +5 attribute bonuses, and maximum control is obtained if two of the governed skills are minor skills.

So, for example, a fighter-type character who wants to be able to get +5 bonuses to Endurance and Strength at every level must choose at least one of the skills governed by Endurance (Armorer, Block and Heavy Armor) to be a minor skill, and at least one of the skills governed by strength (Blade, Blunt and Hand to Hand) to be a minor skill as well. Furthermore, the minor skills must be frequently used. Remember that a total of 20 skill advancements need to be gained in these six skills at each level (10 in endurance-governed skills, and 10 in strength-governed skills); at most 10 of those advancements can come from the major skills (because after 10 your character will always level up). Therefore, at least 10 skill advancements must come from the minor skills. Since more experience must be gained to advance minor skills than major skills, much more than half of your character's time must be spent working on the minor skills. So, if Blade is chosen as the minor skill, the fighter will need to spend more time fighting using bladed weapons than either blunt weapons or fists.

To be fair, Khross's complaint about the game is pretty typical, if you look around, and is something the developers specifically said they're looking at fixing in Skyrim. However, I don't believe most people felt quite as vehemently about it as does Khross.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

I'm sorry, but Khross is absolutely correct. Oblivion was a fun and interesting game, with stunning graphical environments (even though the majority of the characters looked like ***, unless you spent an insane amount of time in the character creation process). The main storyline was even pretty cool, as was the fact that Patrick Stewart and Sean Bean did some of the voice acting.

But the leveling system was seriously fraked. Because the enemies scaled with your level, if you weren't VERY careful with your skill planning and leveling, you could seriously frak yourself over by gaining levels.



Also:



I'm sorry, but any leveling system that requires you to have your main abilities as minor skills in order to achieve the best possible stat combination is flat-out retarded.

I tried playing Oblivion with normal leveling on two separate occasions, and both times, I got so frustrated with it, that I downloaded a leveling mod that fixed all of these inherent problems and made the experience much more enjoyable.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Diamondeye:

Except, the two of you still are not discussing facts. You see, I made no comments about your opinions of your experiences with Oblivion. I made no comments about your enjoyment of the game. I have, however, made several factual and accurate statements about the character mechanics in the game; and, I have stated that those realities of the character system are like **** yourself with a pineapple grenade and abominable.

So, while you two keep taking umbrage, insulting me, and while Foamy pulls a TheRiov and calls me a liar, you're still not actually reading my posts about how certain game mechanics work.

More to the point, I said the systems were horrible, not the game itself. In fact, I'm fairly certain I said the entire reason I wouldn't play another Bethesda game was the lack of people in my MMO and my general dislike of sandbox worlds that de-emphasize the ostensibly central narrative (and that was pages and pages ago.)

Diamondeye:

You can stop lying about what I've actually posted in this thread any time you want.

1. Discourage you from using your primary skill set.

In fact, even the Developers recommend choosing skills that have little to no real impact on gameplay as primary skills.

Every skill that actually matters to your character needs to be a secondary skill.

That's just so ass-backwards.

Indeed, you can't even pick any of the "passive" skills as Primary skills, because you just might level up unintentionally, and that's DISASTROUS in Oblivion.

2. Luck is the single most important stat in the game and the single most difficult to max. And, indeed, it's so important that you have no idea how much you've screwed yourself until you've played a Max Luck Character. I mean, seriously, Luck determines drop rates, damage, damage taken, skill increases, item availability at vendors, spell successes more than the casting school ...

It's just retarded.

3. Redguards have no less than TWICE the HP of any other race available in the game; and, because of the way progression works, suffer absolutely 0 drawbacks for it.

4. The game punishes you for playing it without a level of min-maxing that would get you banned in an MMO and kicked out of Paragon-EU in WoW. Seriously ...

The character progression and development in Oblivion is like **** yourself with a live pineapple grenade. I've played better games of Monopoly with 5 year olds making their own rules up as we go along.

Diamondeye:

...and while Foamy pulls a TheRiov and calls me a liar, you're still not actually reading my posts about how certain game mechanics work...

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Foamy:

Your implication, per the video, was quite obvious.

Diamondeye:

They are factual. Until you can demonstrate conclusive that's not how the character systems work in Oblivion without mods, then you're still lying about what I've posted.

Please, do show me how that's not the way the game mechanically works.

They are factual. Until you can demonstrate conclusively that's not how the character systems work in Oblivion without mods, then you're still lying about what I've posted.

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.