The Glade 4.0

One of the ongoing rivalries on a video game forum I browse is the console gamers vs the PC gamers.

The console fans accuse the PC fans of being elitists. Their main argument seems to be that PC gamers think they are entitled to getting special treatment. I believe one of the observations someone made was that (heavily paraphrased) "PC gamers want the same games that are exclusive to consoles, except they want superior coding, same day releases, and want them for free."

The only personal view I am going to throw out there is that I have seen PC gamers on that forum say that they don't want to be "gimped by inferior hardware" when they can play it at "60fps, 8X AA, 1080p, etc." My reaction to this is: do those things truly make a gameplay experience superior? Graphics are important, yes, but as long as it plays to the strengths of the system it is on, and as long as it is engaging, I don't see how it can offer an "inferior" experience. That said, console gamers tend to accuse most PC gamers as pirates, which is a ridiculous assumption.

What do you all think?

Personally, I'm just too much of a keyboard/mouse gamer to get into consoles.

I was pretty good at Halo 1 PC, but put me playing it on an Xbox and I really suck.

I know I could eventually get over it with some practice, but it just doesn't seem worth the work to me at the moment.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

To me it's different worlds. Consoles for gaming. Only game I've never aced
is Gears of War

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"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one." Charles Mackay

You can just flat do more with a PC than with a console, so as a primarily PC gamer I get nervous when I hear games I want will be also released on consoles. It's not so much the graphics issues as the controls and interfaces for me. I'm lazy and don't tend to ever remap controls...which is rarely a problem with native PC games. Native console games ported to PC tend to have what I want to do buried deep in menu hierarchies.

So, the lesson is: design games for PC first and then "clumsify" the interfaces and throttle back the graphics (if necessary) for the console ports.

I will caveat, I haven't touched any of the current generation consoles, so maybe they interface design is now better than I remember.

Lonedar, that would all be nice if it was the case.

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"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one." Charles Mackay

PC gamers are in the minority now. Aside from MMOs, there are very few A-list titles being released for the PC. And even then, most of those are also being designed and released on consoles as well. Game companies are going to cater to the biggest market and that means consoles. It seems like Blizzard is the only A-List company left that caters exclusively to PC gaming.

There is just more money there and it is much easier to make a game for a platform that has static specs. You don't have to account for fifty million different PC configurations and on the consumer side, you don't have to run out and upgrade your PC every 6 months when something newer and shinier comes out.

It isn't a good thing, but it isn't a bad thing either. I still say FPSes are better on the PC, as are RTSes. Especially RTSes. I can actually get good at FPS games on consoles(not as good as PC, of course) but I can't get good at RTS games on consoles.

But when it comes to other games that are kind of hybrids? Take Gears of War and Mass Effect. I couldn't imagine playing either of those games on the PC due to the cover mechanics. It just comes so naturally to me using a controller. I was really thinking about it when I was playing Mass Effect 2. I was like, "How the **** would I even play this game with a mouse and keyboard? There's no **** way it would be as good."

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

I really wish console games would just support different control modes: controller or keyboard/mouse. That would solve most of my problems.

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The Dude abides.

I kinda doubt they would do that. For one thing, for online competitive play, people would complain about not being on equal footing. Would be nice, though.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

I couldnt agree with this statement more. I can't even begin to fathom how people played the Elder Scrolls on XBox. The menu system had to be a nightmare.

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I can see the control setup being an issue. Like Raltar said, such games as RTSs simply do not lend themselves well to consoles (which is why there are very few of them on consoles to this day).

MMOs are another tough console sell. I can't even imagine playing a game like EQ2 or WoW on a controller-only scheme.

Well, Dragon Age is as close as you are going to get to MMO mechanics and it did just fine on the controller front for the PS3 and 360.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

Yeah, but think of all the keyboard functions involved in an MMO -- macros, emotes, general communication, hotkeys, etc.

I suppose you could map all of that to a controller, but would be ideal for gameplay? Would it be efficient? I would expect you'd have to go through some pretty complex button presses.

Well, with pretty much all the relevant consoles being trivial to hook keyboards up to, it's not such a big deal. My little brother still plays FFXI on a PS2, with a USB keyboard attached.

That said, even being at my core a PC gamer, it's becoming increasingly hard to support any kind of PC Elitism. I mean, my PC can outrun a PS3 and 360 put together...but when the software isn't there to take advantage of it...

...I mean, the most impressive game graphically/technically of 2009 was a PS3 game. Kinda hard to boast my PC's capabilities when that's the case.

EndWar did a good job of being a console RTS, but if you didn't like voice control, you would be screwed.

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Grenade 3 Sports Drink. It's fire in the hole.. Your hole!

Wow, I forgot to hit submit when I typed this up. It's supposed to go immediately under Lonedar's post. =P

The other thing to consider is that PC gaming interfaces lend themselves to allow for much more complexity. Compare available button functions on, say, Halo to a typical Counter-Strike or MMO player's keybinds.

Hardware power is also a very serious question. I find your statement, Rodahn, of "do those things truly make a gameplay experience superior? Graphics are important, yes, but as long as it plays to the strengths of the system it is on, and as long as it is engaging, I don't see how it can offer an "inferior" experience" to be in conflict with your praise of the PS3 as the more powerful hardware and your eagerness to point out when its image quality is better than the 360 port of game X. It *seems* like this is important to you, unless somebody's PC is able to beat the PS3, in which case it's "but the gameplay's just as good, so does that really matter?" Just my perception of your posting history, and how you could try to understand people who do have kick-ass PCs, I don't mean it as an attack.

That said, the association between PCs and piracy is, while unfortunate, a pretty driving factor in the rise of consoles.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Kaffis:

No offense taken.

My main reason for preference of Sony products over MS products (as far as consoles go, of course) is that I prefer the Sony exclusives over those of MS, and I also appreciate Sony's willingness to push the envelope and take big risks (even if they don't always pay off). That's not to say that other consoles never innovate/take risks.

In the past, I fully admit I participated in "system warz" and pointed out anything I could because I felt that my system of choice was being unfairly attacked. Now, I recognize that both systems do what they do well, and each has their audience.

As far as how this relates to PCs, tho, yeah -- you are always going to prefer software that can show off your choice of hardware. I guess it comes down to how I have evolved as a gamer, in that I appreciate non-graphical elements more.

Controllers are inferior vs. keyboard + mouse. That's the main thing for me. The next largest issue is that game consoles have limited other uses beyond gaming. This has changed in the current generation a little, with things line Netflix streaming or movie disc watching.

I felt just the opposite. I played ME2 on my PC, and couldn't imagine playing it with a controller. I've played ME1 on both the 360 and the PC. And I have to say that the control is much better on the PC.



True, but on the PC, you have A LOT more keybinding options than the console. I think I had about 20 hotkeys by the time I finished the game. Good luck getting that on a console.

I will say that Champions Online had a very good controller scheme for the PC. It was very intuitive playing with a 360 controller. But anytime you had to communicate with someone, you had to put the controller down and type on the keyboard. Other than that, it was a pretty good gaming experience.

I have been a PC gamer for years now. I also have a 360 and plan to get a PS3 at some point. But those are mainly for the exclusives. If a game is available (at the same time) for 360 and PC, I'll almost always get it on the PC.

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"I Live, I Love, I Slay, and I Am Content."
- Conan the Barbarian

I'm a PC elitist when it comes to multiplayer. Unless I'm playing with friends and only friends. I cant stand the XBox live nonsense every time I log on.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

This, 100%
I've played console games recently and with the exception of the fighting genre, I just can't play as comfortably or as well with a controller as I can with KB&M.

I actually found myself agreeing with a lot of what Lonedar said, and then you simply posted "you're wrong" but didn't offer any counter-argument. Care to expand a bit on this for the enlightenment of us all?

I'm kinda guessing this is the #1 contributing factor in the PC/Console gaming war; or at least, it's the #1 thing that's got PC gamers angry & scared.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

I support the console/PC overlap, because it often lets me get away without buying the console entirely.

Take that, original Xbox!

IMO, people who engage in elitisim of either, are like children. I don't play many games on the PC nowadays, but I've played a lot on both. I don't know why some people have to **** all over everything.

The market landscape has changed a lot over the years. The PC used to have a lot of PC-only titles that made it noteworthy. From a developer's POV, it's better to get their prodect on as many platforms as possible. It's not cost efficent to make a bleeding edge graphics engine and only release it on the PC. SO we see many more cross-platform releases. Only some of the more successful dev's remain soley on the PC. I remember EB having a lot of shelves with a variety of PC games and A+ titles for the PC only, now the PC games are relegated to a tiny stand and most of the games have console versions. PC gaming won't die, but it's not the vibrant landscape it used to be. (My vision may also be colored rosey w/ fond memories) I think it has some hope in indy games though.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I prefer to use a controller, but am comfortable with a kb and mouse as well. I'll play a game on whichever platform I think is best for it, doesn't really matter to me. Depending on the type I'll choose PC or console, between the consoles I'll always pick it up on the 360 if it's available (I prefer the 360 controller over the PS3), otherwise it's an exclusive and I'll pick it up on the console it's on.

While I somewhat hate to bring it up, PC gaming is dieing due to one thing, and one thing only: piracy. It's harder to pirate for consoles (though not impossible), and this makes devs want to produce games for consoles instead of the pc. This is also why many games are made for consoles and then ported to pc's.

Everytime I hear someone complain about games for the PC that I know pirates I have to laugh. There was an online game that came out last year that had over 100,000 people trying to log onto it's servers the first day it came out. The problem being that the game only sold like 20,000 copies the first day.

I think both have their place, rts's are better on PC, platformers on consoles (imo). There's a few other examples of course.

I definitely prefer the PC over console as I feel I have more/better control with the kb&m over a controller. My main angst with controllers is that nearly every game creates a segment (more multiple segments) where you have to figure out and execute a complex sequence of button taps/actions in perfect sequence or execute some random event with a fraction of a second to chose, with no indication as to what needs to be used, as the only way to pass a section.

Those typically leave me very frustrated (which is NOT what I want when I'm playing a game, this is supposed to be my fun time). In those cases I quickly lose interest and usually move on to something else.

I like games to be challenging. I don't mind having to try different strategies which require mutiple attempts, but failing to beat an otherwise beatable boss because a key flashes on a screen for a fraction of a second, really, really, really makes me loath most console/controller games.


That said, just because I don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't work for some. I prefer PC, but I know others prefer their consoles. Do what you like, just don't try to make me like what I don't.

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Gorse

It seems, surprisingly, the main point of contention is the control scheme, which in general is determined by the game that we're playing.

Personally, I usually tailor my purchase to the platform I feel the control would be best in, (or if I feel the tech would be sufficiently hampered by consoles, especially with user generated content).

Granted, a lot of the time now you can close the gap even farther with a good quality controller on a PC, (even the 360 controller supports PC), so that usually works. I played tomb raider legend with a 360 controller on pc before I ever got a 360.

As has been stated though, it seems consoles are where the big gaming money is now. More and More development houses are programming for console first, then porting to PC. Oblivion was a good example. Every menu and option was about 400 times larger than it needed to be, to account for the low resolution of Televisions. Once I installed a LOT of mods, it started behaving itself as a PC interface should (exact same situation with Fallout3).

However, I couldn't imagine playing Counter Strike Source or Team Fortress 2 on a controller. The precision is just not there. Some Console FPS's do a great job of "assisting" (like the Halo series) for the dead zone/inaccuracy of the controller, but one's ported from PC typically do not.