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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
Doesn't the ability to purchase items, either for gold or real money, take away the essence of what made Diablo, well Diablo?



Did you ever play Diablo 2 online? The market for items for real life cash was freaking huge. As a matter of fact, it is still pretty big to this day. And there was a huge market for bartering. Stone of Jordan was the currency much like Platinum was in Everquest or Gold in WoW. It's nothing new, really...except now you have the AH instead of going through a list of open games trying to find a game where people were trading things. I have a feeling that unless they change the way gold works in Diablo 3 than how it was handled in Diablo and Diablo 2, the gold AH will not be used a whole lot because of how pathetically easy it is to max out your gold in those games making it virtually worthless.

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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Neksar wrote:
Perhaps I didn't articulate my issue very well, or it's dumb and being addressed directly, but my main problem was just the forced internet connection and lack of mod support (or rather, presence of direct mod opposition) that exists, I think, purely to safeguard the value of the playerbase's accumulated loot. It's more of a principle thing than anything. I feel like it takes away from the game's potential, despite it still being a good game. I actually think that's a big thing most cavey boycotters run into - they think the game's still good, it's just that the developers aren't letting it reach its full potential.

EDIT: I guess player-created content being part of that potential is in the eye of the beholder, but I've always been a fan of that sort of thing. Let people do their own thing. DotA's become its own genre. Killing Floor is no longer a mod for UT but a full game.



Well, I guess Diablo is more like an MMO in that sense. Modifying the game in ways to give you an advantage isn't viewed upon well, and for good reason. I too am a huge fan of fan mods, but yeah, the battle.net diablo games are not meant for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:03 pm 
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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/376719 ... _2011#blog

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With Deathwing’s shadow looming over Azeroth and the mortal realms of Sanctuary steeling for war against the forces of Diablo, the World of Warcraft Annual Pass has arrived to offer WoW subscribers a chance to participate in both apocalyptic conflicts… without breaking the bank.



For a limited time only, players who make a 12-month subscription commitment to World of Warcraft through the WoW Annual Pass will receive the following epic rewards:



Diablo III FREE – Download the digital version via Battle.net for free when the game launches early next year. This is the full game, not a trial edition.
Tyrael’s Charger WoW Flying Mount – Ride for the Archangel of Justice on all current and future characters on a single World of Warcraft account. Tyrael’s Charger will arrive via in-game mail with the upcoming launch of patch 4.3.
Access to the Next WoW Expansion Beta Test – Get a guaranteed spot in the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion (at a time to be announced in the future).



You can pay for the WoW Annual Pass on a monthly basis at $14.99 per month or according to the billing plan of your choice. To participate, you must be 18 or older, have a valid credit card, and have registered a full version of World of Warcraft on or before October 18, 2011.



Sign up for the World of Warcraft Annual Pass here, and then keep an eye on the World of Warcraft community site or the Diablo III community site for future announcements regarding the launch dates of these bonuses.



For more information on this offer, including eligibility requirements and details on how the World of Warcraft Annual Pass applies to players who plan to purchase the Diablo III: Collector’s Edition, please read the full FAQ.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:54 am 
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They're getting desperate for WoW subs.

Promise to pay for WoW for a year and we'll GIVE you Diablo 3! And a Horsie! And MoP Beta Access!!

Please! We're begging you now!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:38 am 
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How many subs does WoW have now? Wasn't at 11 million a couple of years ago?

Edit: According to Wikipedia, they were still at 11.1 million paying subscribers as of June of this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:41 am 
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Yea, I think its more of a 'Hey, we KNOW you're going to go play Diablo 3. How about you stay subbed to WoW at the same time, and we'll give you D3?"

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 Post subject: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:46 am 
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It seems to me if any product is being shored up in this deal, it is D3

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:07 pm 
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http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/acti ... art-1.html

They can say they have 12 million "subscribers" all they want.

"Active players" is a completely different number.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Yeah, I think the 11 million figure was "total accounts that have ever been registered with us, whether they've been current in the last 5 years or not". Including trial accounts.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Exactly. I know, by those numbers, that I count for 5.

I bet that Gold Sellers count for something like half of those numbers.

I'd be interested to see actual active server population numbers in realtime.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:19 pm 
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I really could not care less, but I'm pretty sure it's 11.1 'current' subscribers.

They are using verbiage like 'dropped to' and 'churn', which to me indicates they are discussing current active (paying) subs.

This is the article the Wiki article referenced.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3635 ... Slowly.php

gamasutra wrote:
While Blizzard has slowed down its World of Warcraft subscription churn, it hasn't stopped the bleeding yet: according to the company, the subscription count dropped slightly to 11.1 million worldwide during the quarter ending June 30.

Speaking to Activision Blizzard investors during a Gamasutra-attended conference call Wednesday, Blizzard president Michael Morhaime said that the decline -- now in its second quarter -- is to be expected after the release of a major expansion like December's Cataclysm, saying that "what we have seen is that subscribership tends to be seasonal and driven by content updates."

"So as we're heading further away from an expansion launch, it's normal to see some declines," he continued.

But that churn, while normal, is increasing with each new expansion as Morhaime explained back in May.

"As our players have become more experienced playing World of Warcraft over many years, they have become much better and much faster at consuming content," he said at the time. "And so I think with Cataclysm they were able to consume the content faster than with previous expansions, but that's why we're working on developing more content."

That new content, Morhaime said today, will include "major new raid and dungeon content."

"We believe that this new in-game content will keep the game fresh for current players, and provide compelling reasons for lapsed players to come back," he said.

Also helping to slow down the bleeding is the game's new trial system: in late June, the company changed its trial system: rather than its traditional timed trial, players can now play for an unlimited amount of time for free, though their characters stop leveling up at 20 (the current cap for players with all available content is 85).

The move, said Morhaime, has resulted in a "significant increase" in new account creations. While Morhaime says it's "still too early to tell" how often these new players become subscribers, the company believes that it is "an important direction for us to continue lowering that barrier to trial and reaching new players around the world."

Morhaime also says that the game's international expansion will help the churn: the company still sees big opportunities in China (where partner NetEase recently launched the latest expansion, Cataclysm), the country that claims the most broadband users of any nation in the world. He also said that the game has seen "great success" in Russia, and that the game's upcoming Portuguese localization should attract new players.

"Their economy has performed very well compared to the rest of the world during the recession," he said, speaking of Brazil. "We already have some Brazilians playing in English, but we think the market can be a lot bigger in Portuguese."

"There are other countries that we're looking at beyond these as well, but I don't have anything that I can talk about."

Despite the churn, overall revenues were up for the quarter ending June 30, at $313 million versus $299 million from a year ago, thanks to Cataclysm sales and its growth in China. Its operating margins were down, however, which Morhaime says is because the company is investing more into the development of new projects "that haven't necessarily been announced."


Edit:
And from MMOData.net
http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Notice, however, that your chart specifically sets apart what it's showing (subscriptions) from "active accounts" that aren't shown.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:11 pm 
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JFC! What difference does it make? All I'm trying to point out is that WoW isn't hurting for subscribers...

Do you people argue with stop signs?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
JFC! What difference does it make? All I'm trying to point out is that WoW isn't hurting for subscribers...

Do you people argue with stop signs?


You have it right. Its 11.1 million active subscribers. The glade however is just a place for the majority of people to ***** about things and argue over stupid ****.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
JFC! What difference does it make? All I'm trying to point out is that WoW isn't hurting for subscribers...

Do you people argue with stop signs?


But the thing is, that it probably is. Having 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if there's only 2 million people actually paying for and playing the game.

Like I said, I'd like to see active population numbers, but Blizz won't release those for some reason.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:36 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
Do you people argue with stop signs?

Yes. I think I need practice, though, because the signs always win.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Midgen wrote:
JFC! What difference does it make? All I'm trying to point out is that WoW isn't hurting for subscribers...

Do you people argue with stop signs?


But the thing is, that it probably is. Having 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if there's only 2 million people actually paying for and playing the game.

Like I said, I'd like to see active population numbers, but Blizz won't release those for some reason.


Do you think Blizzard really cares? Does it bother them if they get $15/month from 11 million people, or $55/month from 3 million people with multiple accounts. They are still getting the same amount of money, and they obviously are not hurting for money OR subscribers. I wouldn't call having that much money coming in every month "useless." Not by a long shot. You're just being difficult and arguing because of some deep hatred for Blizzard.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Caleria wrote:
Müs wrote:
Midgen wrote:
JFC! What difference does it make? All I'm trying to point out is that WoW isn't hurting for subscribers...

Do you people argue with stop signs?


But the thing is, that it probably is. Having 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if there's only 2 million people actually paying for and playing the game.

Like I said, I'd like to see active population numbers, but Blizz won't release those for some reason.


Do you think Blizzard really cares? Does it bother them if they get $15/month from 11 million people, or $55/month from 3 million people with multiple accounts. They are still getting the same amount of money, and they obviously are not hurting for money OR subscribers. I wouldn't call having that much money coming in every month "useless." Not by a long shot. You're just being difficult and arguing because of some deep hatred for Blizzard.


They obviously are hurting for subs, or they wouldn't be offering D3 for free to anyone that signs a 1 year contract to play WoW.

I should clarify my statement to read: "Saying you have 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if you only have 2 million active, paying accounts."

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Subscriber means active paying account; I would think that's patently obvious.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Yeah...otherwise the number would never go lower, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:55 pm 
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Müs wrote:
They obviously are hurting for subs, or they wouldn't be offering D3 for free to anyone that signs a 1 year contract to play WoW.

I should clarify my statement to read: "Saying you have 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if you only have 2 million active, paying accounts."


How many times do you need it to be spelled out? 11.1 Million IS the number of monthly paying accounts. They used to have 12 million monthly paying accounts.

For **** sake already.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:01 pm 
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"Active players" vs. "Active subscribers" isn't important because all MMOs suffer from people having multiple accounts and people who are just keeping their account active but don't really play.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Uinan wrote:
Müs wrote:
They obviously are hurting for subs, or they wouldn't be offering D3 for free to anyone that signs a 1 year contract to play WoW.

I should clarify my statement to read: "Saying you have 11 million 'subscribers' is useless if you only have 2 million active, paying accounts."


How many times do you need it to be spelled out? 11.1 Million IS the number of monthly paying accounts. They used to have 12 million monthly paying accounts.

For **** sake already.


Except its not. But whatever.

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-da ... cataclysm/

According to this, they've sold 12m copies of Vanilla. 7.5m BC, 7M LK, and 3.5M Cata.

And they have 11.1M paying accounts?

Bullshit.

Either way its telling that they're *giving* away their only new game in the pipeline if only you'll commit to paying for another year of WoW.

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Last edited by Müs on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Diablo 3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:27 pm 
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The 11.1 million figure is misleading. Even when we read the Blizzard definition of a "subscriber" we do not stop to think about what their definition actually means, especially since we are not overly familiar with how game cards or gaming cafes might work in other countries.

11.1 million is not the number of paying accounts. It is the number of:
World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition wrote:
World of Warcraft® subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
That definition contains a means by which a single subscription can be double-counted. It also contains a means by which a single subscription may be counted in perpetuity. Prepaid cards in China carry a certain number of minutes which tick down as you play, as opposed to expiring thirty days after activation. Should you quit with 30 minutes left on a card, you remain on Blizzard's roster as an active subscription.

11.1 million is a padded number that makes Blizzard's official reports look better than the actual reality. Blizzard has "rounded up" to get that number. By how much? Did they "round up" by a hundred thousand? By one million? By three million? That data is not available. It is very likely that Blizzard itself does not know. What is clear upon reading the Blizzard definition of a subscriber is that the 11.1 million figure contains a statistically significant amount of error, and that said error works to make Blizzard look good in press releases.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:50 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Yeah...otherwise the number would never go lower, eh?

As I understand it, what Coro just said is correct. Something like an estimated 2.5-3 million accounts are either double-counted or in a situation like the remaining time limbo where they'll be counted in perpetuity.

As for Farsky's comment, the way I've seen it reported, WoW doesn't really keep a current count of "Subscribers." Because then, they'd have to report (on things like financial filings) losses in "Subscriptions." Instead, they just have the system notify them when "Subscription" counts tick past milestones. This way, they can say "The last we counted, we had eleventy-billion subscribers," while carefully omitting (because they're not required/requested to disclose it) that the last time they counted was 4 years ago, when the game peaked. It's a system that lets them only report good news, without calling into question why they don't count when there might be bad news.

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