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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Why do we see gimmick after gimmick? It's because the sheep keep flocking.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:22 am 
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Roophus Gunthar wrote:
Why do we see gimmick after gimmick? It's because the sheep keep flocking.


It's because the game manufacturers realize they already have the main gaming market. They want more soccer moms and non-gamers to come in, and the way to do that is oversimplification of the control interface. The current PS3/Xbox controls have a HUGE number of buttons, for non-gamers it's very intimidating. However, they understand the idea of "block the soccer ball by moving left or right in front of a camera."


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:23 pm 
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I don't think there's a clear line between "main" gamers and "gimmicks". You can certainly find extremes for both of those camps, and there's certainly been a trend towards making gaming more accessible with things like the Wii and PopCap, but there is a middle ground where things are very uncertain.

I don't see the Wii's motion controls as a gimmick, for one. It can certainly be in some games. Any game that ties in some motion to an action that doesn't match the motion in-game counts. Overly complex or poorly coded control is a problem and really detracts from the experience. I think Kinect takes the motion aspect of motion controls too far, too. A lot of people already say that they don't want to get home and start moving their body all over to play the Wii, and in the Wii's case this is rarely even the case. In looks like it will almost always be in the Kinect's case, but time will tell. In my experience, the Wii's motion controls work best when they're minimal (Wii Sports bowling being the exception, and I'd attribute that more to the fact that Nintendo really nailed it to a degree far surpassing any tricky motion I've seen otherwise attempted on the Wii) -- games like Twilight Princess and especially Metroid Prime: Corruption show the Wii's motion controls in their best light. They're something like a proof-of-concept to me: motion controls at work that do not have the taste of gimmick about them. It feels right, not forced.

The DS's touchpad is another such example, for similar reasons. Some games use it as a gimmick. Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow was a good game, and the touch-screen use wasn't bad, but you could see it was something sort of tacked on and would qualify it for gimmick status as a result. I wouldn't say it detracted from the game, but only because it was so rarely used -- something akin to executing a Mortal Komatesque Fatality when you beat the relatively few bosses in the game. I don't think it added anything to the game, though.

Then you take a game like Meteos, and it only shines because of the touchscreen controls. They even included an option to use the normal controls and forego the touchscreen, and it works, but it loses a bit of the interest that makes it a different gaming experience.

I suppose an in-depth discussion would require a definition for 'gimmick', which would probably be tough to nail down in a way that suits everyone. I get the impression a game system with anymore more than a standard control with a few buttons and perhaps an analog stick would be gimmicky to some, and perhaps some games themselves may qualify similarly even for a system that spartan.

For myself, I'm fairly grateful for the exploration taken recently along these lines. For all of the gimmicky ways the Wii or DS can end up providing us through some less than impressive game developers, at other times we get some truly unique and enjoyable gaming experiences from them. I'll still play my Final Fantasy 829374234 and others will love their God of War 8173: The New Pantheon and that is perfectly fine. I may even prefer these games as my gaming core. But I'm thankful that we have other options that don't tie us down for the rest of gaming eternity to controller design from, essentially, 1996. More options is a good thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Funny, but this Kinect has me thinking ... I tried a fencing or some kind of sword game on my cousin's Wii, and I got kind of frustrated. But it looks like Kinect is a bit more sophisticated - a game where I could actually have some control over a sword would be pretty freakin' cool.

Game controllers like they have now? I've apparently hit the "too old" stage, even though in my youth I rocked the granddaddy of complex video games, Defender. Simplify the controls and get my wife to play? We're probably there ...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:44 pm 
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In 5-10 years, people will look back at the 2000s and laugh at people just sitting on their couch with little handheld controllers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Holodecks anyone?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Holodecks anyone?


Yes please. I need me some Barclay-type Beverly Crusher simulations Stat!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Darkroland wrote:
Micheal wrote:
Holodecks anyone?


Yes please. I need me some Barclay-type Beverly Crusher simulations Stat!

Yeah, maybe I won't get all tongue-tied while meeting her this time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:31 am 
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I don't think these motion controls are really aimed at me. The control pad has been working pretty well for my FPS and RPG and etc games. If they wanted to help my FPS controls they'd start making the KB+mouse an option.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:38 am 
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P.A.'s Editorial is pretty good.
Tycho wrote:
Kinect, being an onyx lozenge bristling with a combination of sensing "eyes" and licking "beams," has an inherent Fear Quotient (FQ). It generates a base amount of human terror simply by being plugged in. And after as little as twenty minutes spent observing human targets, test units are (reportedly) resting in puddles of acrid, burning saliva.

I understand that we're supposed to envision Move and Kinect on some kind of Madison Square Garden fight poster, but I'm not entirely sure these are comparable products. Move attempts to split the baby, which is (metaphorically speaking) a noble gesture: one that attempts to make converts of their existing base while courting the wider world. Is that something that works? We'll see. It's much more suited to traditional games (which is to say, suited to them at all) which makes catalyzing a user base a safer bet. Kinect is still crazypants, but it's hard to predict the result.

Much of the Kinect dialogue is taking place at a level of sophistication that doesn't intersect at all with its intended audience. The population at large doesn't talk about experiences in terms of their framerate, their refresh, or milliseconds. Asking "how will you play the Halos on Kinect" is like asking how you could make ice cream in a bird's nest. People who play the (ahem) "Halos" seem pretty happy with controllers as a method of player interaction, and in a genre that trades on fractions of a second, it's a proven mechanism. I don't want to say it's a stupid question, but it's certainly the wrong question - that is to say, it's not a question about the Kinect as an input methodology. The Kinect would be profoundly and uniquely bad as a primary controller for an FPS. That isn't what it is designed to do.

You cannot - in all seriousness - make the claim that the problem with the Xbox 360 is its dearth of shooters.

Look at the racing experiences shown: by comparison, Mario Kart is more hardcore. These Kinect racers are games without brakes or acceleration, for Chrissakes. There have been demos in the past that featured acceleration and braking by shifting your foot forward and backward on the floor, but such demos were not in evidence at E3 this year, and they're not important for this discussion anyway. These are heavily abstracted experiences, by the standards of those who love this medium, and abstractions are generally seen (again, by us) as dilutions of purpose. Is that notion true for the people they want to buy this thing? If you identify the fun part of an interaction, and distill it, is that enough? Do those people - them, the usurpers - care that they are not being given an accurate simulation, so long as they may drive a Ferrari?

This whole notion is ash in my mouth.

People who identify deeply with this pastime would never in a million years have foreseen the rise of the Wii, and of this new type of player, whose mysterious predilections and coherent purchasing beam now grip the rudder of an industry. I'd say that enthusiast gamers are singularly bad at predicting broad market success. If we don't like something, collectively, if our hatred for it throbs like an abscess beneath every thread, does that mean that they're doing something right?

(CW)TB out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:46 am 
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Wwen wrote:
I don't think these motion controls are really aimed at me. The control pad has been working pretty well for my FPS and RPG and etc games. If they wanted to help my FPS controls they'd start making the KB+mouse an option.


You using a PS2 and original Xbox? Both of the current systems are capable of having mouse and keyboard setups.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:39 pm 
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That doesn't mean they're valid inputs for a given game, Lenas. At least, not the last time I looked.

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