Anna/Elizabeth drowns her dad before her birth, wiping out Columbia from ALL timelines since neither she, Booker or Comstock exist beyond that point. Except in quantum timelines where Booker chooses not to be drowned
_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
I found the Bioshock wrench.
I'm not sure if this was a deliberate easter egg or just a case of recycling assets because, hey, we need a wrench over here and no one feels like modeling a new one.
Lenas wrote:
<spoilerific flow chart>
Here's a pretty solid analysis of the whole thing (massively spoilery, of course):
I wrote this for another forum, but it'll apply here. Pretty much all of this is covered in an number of Voxaphones you find all over the place...
The Luteces: This one is pretty much all out of audio logs, which is a shame. Comstock meets a young Rosalind Lutece some time after his Baptism, she has an amazing new technology that will allow cities to fly, it also allows you to look into and eventually even travel to other dimensions. Part of this discovery involves making contact with her "brother" a male version of her doing similar work in another world. Eventually Rosalind is able to bring Robert into her world and while he suffers as a result, nose bleeds, twisted memories etc. etc, he recovers and they begin working together.
Meanwhile Comstock is now drunk on his own Prophet-hood. He has been using the rifts to look into other worlds, both their past and their future. He sees what he thinks is his future and derives a "Prophecy" from it. About his heir ascending the throne and bringing fire to the mountains of man (Spoilers: apocalypse). It seems like Comstock in the game buys his own fiction, he really believes an angel talked to him when he was demension scouting. So he finds a down on her luck woman, fills her to the gills with dogma and marries her, all set to do some begetting
Terrible News Everyone! Mucking about in multidimensional space has rendered Comstock sterile, no heir for him!
Good News Everyone! Comstock has found a world where a version of him has a child. This version of him is a drunk and a gambler! How is it fair that such a godless sinner has been gifted a child while Comstock is forsook? Let's fix that!
Comstock, along with the Luteces arrange to buy Anne from Booker and bring her into their world. They do so, but alas Mrs. Comstock is unthrilled. She is not so brainwashed that she can believe she concived a child in a single week and has no memory of it. Initially she takes Elizabeth for the product of some liaison between Comstock and Rosalind. However when she confronts Ms. Lutece the ever pragmatic Rosalind simply tells her the truth. Lady Comstock is dumbstruck, and after some soul searching she presents her husband with an ultimatum, tell the truth and beg forgiveness or she'll blab. Comstock just has her killed, cause he's a nutter.
Meanwhile! Robert Lutece has gotten wind of the same future that Comstock has seen in his prophecy. Being somewhat more affectionate than his sister, he is not cool with letting the world burn, even if it's only one of a billion, billion worlds. He insists that the child be returned to her own world and his sister relents. They go to Comstock, but cause Comstock is still a nutter he pays Fink to sabotage their equipment.
The sabotage works and the Luteces appear to be killed, however they start to reappear several days later. There's a log from Rosalind in their lab which describes them as not dead, but rather trapped in "probability space," whatever that is. The implication seems to be that they are still able to rift walk, but they're are limited in how much they can interact with the world.
Undeterred Robert begins working on a way to prevent the calamity they set in motion. He devises a plan to bring a Booker DeWitt into their world and pit him against Comstock in the hopes of prying Elizabeth away from him. His sister agrees to go along with it and they give it a try, and another, and another.
They try a lot. Remember the slate board at the start of the game when you flip a coin? Remember how many tally marks there were? This is the source of the "ocean," the endless continuum of worlds, light houses, Bookers and Comstocks. It's the Luteces searching the annals of probability for a string in which Booker succeeds, Elizabeth is unchained and the Comstock personality can be quashed, allowing the loops to close and absolving poor Robert's conscience.
This is of course the thread that the Player Character experiences, cause who would want to play all the ones where you failed?
Also yes, the entire game is a sad little ginger boy come nascent god attempting to assuage his guilt.
Moral: Audio Logs are a stupid way to convey major plot details just so the tards with zero attention span can get back to shooting stuff.
Hopwin wrote:
I did, the songs during the credits were great too.
Yeah. Most VAs, even if they have really good speaking voices, don't seem to be able to carry a tune in a bucket. I thought it was interesting that both lead VAs for this game actually had solid singing voices and some musical talent to back it up. I just automatically assumed they used different VAs for the singing until I got the credits. I also found it interesting that Ken Levine was credited with music and/or lyrics on a couple of the songs.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
I knew there were more covers in the game besides "God Only Knows" when I saw the final credits, but I couldn't figure out where they slipped them in. That's really neat.
FarSky wrote:
Hooooooooly ****.
At this point, I'm willing to start a Kickstarter to have Ken Levine creative-direct every game ever from now on.
Of course the game is gorgeous and dripping with excellent environmental design and art direction. But looking beyond that, it's also exceptionally well crafted in relation to its story and themes.
In fact, there are several things about this game that a person might ordinarily complain about which turn out to be actually quite brilliant. Kaffis touched on one of them. Yes, this game is considerably more linear than you might expect for a member of the *Shock family of games. Without spoiling anything, all I can really do is assure you that this wasn't an oversight or lazy game design. It was a very deliberate design choice, and there is a very good reason behind it.
Elaborating on that more, here are a bunch of (massively spoilery) things that have popped my head since completing it:
Spoiler:
The forced linearity of the game alludes to the inevitability of the outcome. Kaffis suggested that the game might be too much "on rails". This is actually the perfect analogy. Everything and everyone in this game is on rails, futilely trying to change the direction of the freight train of fate.
The skyrails throughout the game reinforce that analogy so directly that it seems almost blatant in hindsight. Really the only extent that Bioshock Infinite breaks from linearity is that occasionally the player is sent on a "sidequest" that isn't really a sidequest. Rather than prompting the player to branch out laterally, it just makes them backtrack a bit to an area they've already visited. They can move forward or backward, but not side to side -- just like the skyrails.
A similar complaint is that in several places the game asks you to make a choice, but your choices don't really influence anything. Of course, that's exactly the point. Variables and constants. Your actions only change the stream in minor or completely inconsequential ways. A different necklace, a bandaged hand or not, one piece of gear. The big picture tumbles inevitably forward no matter what you do.
Speaking of which, do you remember that scene near the beginning of the game where the Luteces ask Booker to call a coin toss? You'd have to play the game more than once to know this, but Booker doesn't always call it the same way. But no matter which way he calls it, the actual outcome is always the same (heads). And by the way, all of those tick marks on the board for "heads"? The Luteces have already tried to break the circle 122 times (hold that thought).
It gets better. Elizabeth is a helpful gal, always tossing you things just when you need them in battle. She likes to toss spare change at you, too. Watch carefully. Booker will always catch it the same way. It's either 100% tails or 100% heads for the entire game. What's more, the outcome corresponds to which way Booker called that first coin toss with Lutece.
Also regarding the seemingly pointless choices, there's something interesting about the necklace. Like most people, I suspect, I chose the bird on my first playthrough. I didn't know what effect it would have, but it seemed a more thematically appropriate choice for a jailbreak, right? Wrong. As we find out, the bird is what keeps Elizabeth captive, and ultimately the CAGE that sets her free.
Still holding that thought about the Luteces trying to break the circle over and over again? There's something very clever in the first scene on the rowboat. Rosalind seems confused when Robert tells her that Booker "doesn't row", but seems satisfied when he merely repeats with different emphasis, "no, he DOESN'T row". I didn't get this until I realized they've done this a hundred times. Robert isn't trying to say that Booker considers himself above the act of rowing. He just observing that as a matter of fact, Booker doesn't row, just like the coin is never tails. He doesn't row. That's just not how it goes.
On that note, when you die, you seem to be magically resurrected right where you fell. Only that's not what's really going on. The Lutece twins haven't done this hundreds of times just for their health, you know. When you die, that's it. The end. Elizabeth is recaptured, tortured, goes crazybitch, and burns the world. The Luteces start all over again, and the player picks up with another trip around the circle where Booker manages not to die at that particular moment.
Speaking of circles, let's talk about the music. "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" is quite possibly the most perfect fusion of music and plot that I've ever seen. Seriously, just look at the lyrics, especially the first verse, last verse, and chorus:
Ada R. Habershon wrote:
There are loved ones in the glory Whose dear forms you often miss. When you close your earthly story, Will you join them in their bliss?
Will the circle be unbroken By and by, by and by? Is a better home awaiting In the sky, in the sky?
One by one their seats were emptied. One by one they went away. Now the family is parted. Will it be complete one day?
Just...wow.
"Will the Circle Be Unbroken" is the centerpiece, but all of the music was very cleverly chosen. A scrambled version of "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" plays during the scene where Elizabeth rushes out to have some frivolous fun after finally escaping the tower. Then there's "God Only Knows":
Tony Asher wrote:
I may not always love you
A reference both to Comstock not really loving Elizabeth and to Booker selling his daughter
Tony Asher wrote:
But long as there are stars above you
Remember the ending? The stars are tears to the infinite worlds...
Tony Asher wrote:
You never need to doubt it I'll make you so sure about it
...in which Booker realizes his mistake, moving heaven and earth to rescue her. Think especially about how certain Elizabeth was that Booker was still coming for her even after he vanished for six months.
Tony Asher wrote:
God only knows what I'd be without you
Another good dual reference. It can refer to the broken man Booker becomes without Anna, or to the monster Comstock becomes without the influence of his daughter due to his sterility.
There's a whole heap of symbolism centered around baptism that I've barely begun to disentangle. And, yes, that's a quantum physics joke. Two relevant voxophone recordings:
Comstock wrote:
One man goes into the waters of baptism. A different man comes out, born again. But who is that man who was submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner and saint, until he is revealed unto the eyes of man.
Comstock wrote:
When a soul is born again, what happens to the one left behind in the baptismal water? Is he simply ... gone? Or does he exist in some other world, alive, with sin intact?
They're obviously alluding to Schroedinger's cat and Booker/Comstock's baptism, but there's more to it than that. The theme shows up in a lot of places: washing away sin, Booker being "reborn" over and over again, trying to wipe away his debt.... And then there's the Biblical interplay between baptism and the flood which was also brought into the game. The Biblical symoblism of baptism refers not only to life and death but also to starting over. In another voxophone recording, Comstock, refers to the flood ("What is Columbia but an ark for a different time?"), and declares that even God deserves a do-over. Meanwhile, the Luteces are caught in a cycle of do-overs involving, of all things, the repeated death and rebirth of Booker. And that's not even touching on Elizabeth's baptism of the world.
John 3:11-12 wrote:
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
This also ties back in to all the references to Sodom and Gomorrah. It's probably worth noting that Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt, though I can't be sure if that's deliberate. Salt also has a lot of New Testament significance.
On that note, the Bible in the first area of Columbia is open to John 3, which I thought was interesting, particularly:
John 3:16 wrote:
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
, ed, will
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
TL;DR: This girl cosplayed as Elizabeth based on art/screenshots from early builds of Bioshock Infinite. The studio liked her rendition so much that they altered the game model to look more like her.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Hopwin wrote:
Minor plot hole: Why is Slate pissed off?
Have you finished the game? I'm not sure how much to say. If you haven't, let's leave it at:
Spoiler:
He's pissed because Comstock is pretending to be the hero of Wounded Knee and the Boxer Rebellion. When Slate confronted him about it, Comstock stripped him of his rank. Of course, there's also the matter of Slate using the Shock Jockey vigor. As you note, the technology was borrowed from Rapture. Vigors/Plasmids seem to have some serious mental and physical side effects. I don't think Fink has completely worked the bugs out of the system. If you notice, all the vigor using enemies wear masks and are completely bonkers. If you take a close look at Slate, his head is all disfigured. So he doesn't need a whole lot of reason, really.
Speaking of which, Fink also got the technology to make Handymen from Rapture. It's implied that the Songbird is basically a gigantic, flying Big Daddy, and Elizabeth is his Little Sister.
If you have:
Spoiler:
Actually, Comstock really was there. But his subsequent exposure to whatever technology Lutece used to create and open tears gave him some sort of cancer that prematurely ages him. Slate doesn't recognize that Comstock = Booker. Incidentally, re: vigors making you crazy, one supposes that Booker doesn't go nuts because he's genetically identical to Andrew Ryan.
Edit: Which reminds me of another cool continuity point: When Booker and Elizabeth walk through Rapture, there's a sign saying that bathysphere access has been locked down. Booker is able to use it anyway.
I didn't notice this detail my first time around: Dimwit is looking into the barrel of the gun
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Slate also wasn't expecting Booker/Comstock to be older than him. If you didn't know that he had been going through tears and aging rapidly, there'd be no logical explanation for Slate believing Comstock was Booker, even if they looked similar.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
FarSky wrote:
<PA cartoon>
Saw this comment on reddit:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Well, you see to me she was more a mix of Belle, Rapunzel, and Dr. Manhattan , who by the way is my favorite Disney Princess
Edit:
No matter how you turn it, this mechanic will never stop being ridiculous.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Slate also wasn't expecting Booker/Comstock to be older than him. If you didn't know that he had been going through tears and aging rapidly, there'd be no logical explanation for Slate believing Comstock was Booker, even if they looked similar.
Spoiler:
Except Comstock was not older than booker or Slate and the tears weren't aging people or else Elizabeth would've been older as would the Luteces. Plus the whole Slate storyline didn't fit the narrative of the story. It felt last minute added like an afterthought.
_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Incidentally, re: vigors making you crazy, one supposes that Booker doesn't go nuts because he's genetically identical to Andrew Ryan.
Spoiler:
Bioshock 1 was set in 1960 and Booker was already 40ish when Infinite occurs in 1912 so Ryan has nothing to do with DeWitt unless Ryan is 90 something (which he does not appear to be). The restricted access to the bathyspheres was also in effect in Bioshock 1, but the other plan crash survivor at the start of the game was able to use it to get down into Rapture and subsequently be torn apart by the first splicer you see.
_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
What are you talking about? Comstock abusing the tears was specifically stated to be the reason for his advanced aging and his sterility, wasn't it?
Spoiler:
Rosalind built him a machine to look through the tears, not travel through them, hence how he got his prophecies and his sterility, he didn't jump from universe to universe other than when he got Anna from Booker.
Interesting that both the Fink brothers also used these machines excessively to spy on probable universes without advanced aging or tumors.
In addition, Rosalind Lutece only went through as many times as Comstock (once) while her brother Robert passed through twice (before both were trapped in the possibility universe at which point they were/are able to go back and forth between universes at will without repercussion).
_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Not exactly Bioshock Infinite, but alol:
The glass of brandy really sells it.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 2903 Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Müs wrote:
My favorite fan theory is that Elizabeth is the real protagonist of Bioshock Infinte, and she's on the worst escort mission ever. No matter how many heals and ammo she tosses to Booker, that ******* still manages to get himself killed again and again.
Hopwin wrote:
Finally saw your video Stathol. Hate you soooo very much. So very much.
Awwww.
If it's any consolation, you do realize that entire series is tongue-in-cheek, right? So far as I know, Ken Levine is not actually a brony.
_________________ Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only! Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me; For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go, And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
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