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| general 3e question... https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6053 |
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| Author: | darksiege [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | general 3e question... |
Do deities have major and minor access per standard rules or is it only major (standard) in 3e? |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:25 am ] |
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I thought they just had portfolilos |
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| Author: | shuyung [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:28 am ] |
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I kind of forget the particulars of major and minor access from AD&D. If you want, I can make available to you PDF copies of Deities and Demigods and Faiths and Pantheons. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: general 3e question... |
Spellcasting has changed substantially. In second edition AD&D, there were no individual spell lists for rangers, paladins, druids, and bards. There was only the mage spell list and the priest spell list. Mage went to ninth level, and priest went to 7th. Bards received access to mage spells (though only 6th level or so by level 20), while paladins, druids, rangers, and clerics used priest spells. Priest spells were grouped in spheres, in addition to schools. Deities granted major (full access to 7th level spells) or minor (access to spells of up to 3rd level) access to the various spheres of priest spells. Clerics of different deities could have wildly different spell lists. The druid "spell list" was created through the combination of spheres they were given access to. The paladin and ranger "spell lists" were created in the same manner. Clerics, by default, received full access to all spheres except for the ones used to define the druid spell list. Then there was a section detailing how to construct a clerical order for a specific deity. Third edition does away with spheres. Now there are distinct cleric and druid lists. Deities are now differentiated, not by the spells they grant, but by domains. A cleric picks two domains, each with a list of spells level 1-9 that may be prepared in a single domain slot. Those spells are not added to the cleric's normal spell list (though they might be regular cleric spells in their own right), and a cleric can not use his normal spell slots to prepare those spells. In essence, a cleric of the god of fire who takes the fire domain does not get to add Burning Hands to his cleric list. Instead, he has a special domain slot that he can use to prepare either Burning Hands, or the corresponding spell for whatever his second domain is. Domains also grant a special ability to the cleric. The aforementioned fire domain allows the cleric to turn/destroy water elementals and to rebuke/bolster/command fire elementals (just like turn/rebuke undead, but they receive a separate pool for turning/rebuking elementals, which are not eligible for using on feats like Divine Might and such). |
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| Author: | darksiege [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
shuyung wrote: I kind of forget the particulars of major and minor access from AD&D. If you want, I can make available to you PDF copies of Deities and Demigods and Faiths and Pantheons. I have both of those already, thank you. And Coro, Thank you. As I mentioned to people in a few PMs.... it is going to be a while LOL. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | general 3e question... |
Yes you have a lot of deities to go though. Its not as hard as you think. Keep their flavor text and alignment intact. Then assign them domains as you feel best. Every deity should have two or more. Id make sure you have access to spell compendium for the complete list of domains. Worshippers are best handled by Alignment and what is known as the "one step" rule. A worshiper's alignment can only very from their deity by one shift along one axis. Thus, LN, LG and NG gods will be the only ones to have paladins. Any deity that is non good will have Blackguards and assassins. I wouldn't worry about needing special paladins as you have Blackguards and divine champion classes. In FR rangers are free to worship according to their alignment though you Can change that if you like. |
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| Author: | Dalantia [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: general 3e question... |
Rorinthas wrote: Thus, LN, LG and NG gods will be the only ones to have paladins. I know there's at least one CG deity in FR that gets paladins; can't remember which off the top of my head. |
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| Author: | Raltar [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sune has paladins. It's incredibly stupid. But there you go. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | general 3e question... |
Yes that's a substitution class though. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Substitution levels were added for specific paladin orders after the fact; Sune had paladins long before "Champions of Valor" came out to give all the various orders of paladins their own flavor. CG Selûne also has paladins (Crescent Moon Knights - who can also worship Clangeddin.) Also, Corellon Larethian can have Paladins (the entirety of the Seldarine and Dark Seldarine pantheons are Chaotic, though. Without this concession, you'd rarely see a pointy-eared paladin.) |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: general 3e question... |
It doesn't stop at CG deities having paladins. Paladins and monks belonging to certain orders have more relaxed multiclassing rules, too. Remember, in the Player's Handbook, it specifically states that any paladin or monk who multiclasses may never take monk or paladin levels again. There is not even a caveat for prestige classes. In Forgotten Realms, this is not the case. Paladins who worship Azuth (and presumably Mystra, judging by feats and prestige classes) may continue to advance as a paladin. Paladins of Lathander are allowed to multiclass as clerics, and several prestige classes (including the cleric-equivalent of archmage). Monks of the Dark Moon (Shar) may multiclass as sorcerers. Monks of the Old Order (no specific deity) may multiclass as rogues, sorcerers, and shadowdancers. Forgotten Realms has several monk and paladin orders, each of which is dedicated to a particular god (or group of gods) and carries its own rules and restrictions. Remember, the campaign world predates third edition, and thus the "one-step rule." Is it stupid for Sune to have paladins? Why shouldn't any deity have a knight order? Back when these knight orders were first being introduced to the world, there was no rule that said a chaotic god couldn't have lawful followers. You might have something if 1) paladin weren't a base class or 2) there was a base class (in the PH, not in some extra supplement) for evil and chaotic knights. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: general 3e question... |
Corolinth wrote: It doesn't stop at CG deities having paladins. Paladins and monks belonging to certain orders have more relaxed multiclassing rules, too. Remember, in the Player's Handbook, it specifically states that any paladin or monk who multiclasses may never take monk or paladin levels again. There is not even a caveat for prestige classes. In Forgotten Realms, this is not the case. Paladins who worship Azuth (and presumably Mystra, judging by feats and prestige classes) may continue to advance as a paladin. Paladins of Lathander are allowed to multiclass as clerics, and several prestige classes (including the cleric-equivalent of archmage). Monks of the Dark Moon (Shar) may multiclass as sorcerers. Monks of the Old Order (no specific deity) may multiclass as rogues, sorcerers, and shadowdancers. Forgotten Realms has several monk and paladin orders, each of which is dedicated to a particular god (or group of gods) and carries its own rules and restrictions. Remember, the campaign world predates third edition, and thus the "one-step rule." Is it stupid for Sune to have paladins? Why shouldn't any deity have a knight order? Back when these knight orders were first being introduced to the world, there was no rule that said a chaotic god couldn't have lawful followers. You might have something if 1) paladin weren't a base class or 2) there was a base class (in the PH, not in some extra supplement) for evil and chaotic knights. Minor point of order: the one step rule only applies to receiving divine spells. (Which would restrict paladins, normally.) Monks can worship any god they feel like, or none at all (regardless of the implications in FR when they die)...they don't cast spells. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The monk orders are for multiclassing purposes. Certain monk orders, like certain paladin orders, may multiclass into certain other classes without losing the ability to advance as a monk. |
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| Author: | Baethia [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Fr has a feat specifically for that though |
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| Author: | Khross [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: general 3e question... |
The Complete Divine, I believe it is, has feats for non-Faerunian games: Ascetic *. |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is the feat in question: Monastic Training Type: General Source: Eberron Campaign Setting You are part of an order that combines the monastic discipline of the monk class with another form of training. Benefit: Pick one class. Taking levels in this class does not prevent you from taking monk levels. If you take levels in any other class, you lose your ability to progress as a monk as usual. If the selected class also has restricted advancement, such as the paladin class, taking monk levels does not prevent you from advancing in that class. Special: A monk can take this feat as his bonus feat at 1st, 2nd, or 6th level. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The monk and paladin orders in the FR setting do not require a feat. Certain orders simply allow multiclassing with specific classes as a side benefit for being a member of the club. |
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