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 Post subject: Origin ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:37 pm 
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I've pretty much converted to preferring digital versions of games, for most of the normal reasons, but I'm not a fan of having a generic launcher or overlays that always run in the background, and I don't really have any interest in the 'social' aspects of things like Steam and Origin.

As I posted in the ME3 thread, I'm a little annoyed that the digital download I bought from Amazon is really nothing more than a license key and a download for the Origin software. This was probably in the fine print somewhere, but I more than a little surprised and annoyed after I ran the installer, that the only thing I had on my PC was "Origin".

I really just want to install the game, run a patcher for any updates, and launch the game directly.

I'm tempted to purchase an ME3 DVD at the store just so I have physical media and can get the game without having to deal with Origin, but I think I'm reading that even with the physical media, you still need to install and update through Origin. Can anyone confirm if this is true?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:40 pm 
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You have to have Origin even if you get the physical copy.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:50 pm 
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welcome to the future. This is unlikely to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Origin ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Most annoying part of starting up ME3 is waiting 20 seconds at the title screen while, "Connecting to EA servers..."


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Yup. EA's current policies with regard to Origin mean that I'm unlikely to ever buy a PC game from them again.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yup. EA's current policies with regard to Origin mean that I'm unlikely to ever buy a PC game from them again.


And yet I bet you buy games on Steam all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Origin ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:13 pm 
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You're comparing apples and oranges, actually, Raltar. EA is licensing you the game; Steam is selling you the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Eh. Steam can't take the licenses away(unless they are Valve games) but you don't own a game when you purchase it.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
Eh. Steam can't take the licenses away(unless they are Valve games) but you don't own a game when you purchase it.
With Steam, you actually do, because if for any reason the service is disabled, all games on Steam will have their DRM disabled and be playable as installed. That requirement is why EA no longer does business on Steam.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Actually, Khross, I don't think it is. I'm pretty sure the reason EA decided to part ways with Steam was that Steam doesn't allow direct pay interactions with other entities on any software sold via Steam.

Thus, as EA moves to a DLC-centric business model (to shift their revenue stream away from retailers), they didn't want to hand over a slice of that pie to Valve, since the whole point of the DLC model is to cut out the middleman.

As for Steam and Origin being the same -- even if they offered the same things (which they don't -- let me know when Origin does blowout sales, for an example), Valve has had years to earn my trust with Steam and improve the software and the features offered on it -- you'll note I was rather grumbly about it when it was first introduced, if you've got a memory back that far.

One could argue that EA would do the same thing over time, but I don't really care -- they don't have to; they could have just gone ahead and continued offering me their products over a service that's already earned my trust, but they didn't want to. Thus, I don't want to buy their products anymore. And that's not even scratching the surface of the fact that EA is starting from a deep HOLE when it comes to trust, unlike Valve did.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
You have to have Origin even if you get the physical copy.



No you don't. Buy a DVD copy of the game, download a cracked copy. Play legally without origin.

Can't do multiplayer, but there will be "readiness hacks" to get around that irritating requirement...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Well, assuming the two were the same, I already have games on Steam. I don't want to have to install a bunch of different competing platform services (or whatever they are called) whenever someone decides to do an exclusive release.

It kinda defeats the purpose.

I guess I'll be passing on my ME3 license to someone else then. I'm not installing Origin.

Edit: To address Taly's comment.

While what you are saying is true, it's not something that I'm going to do. It's not because of some ethical or moral high ground, I'm just not going to deal with the hassle.

I'll be in my workshop if anyone is looking for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Hmm. It really wasn't a hassle. People think it's a chore to do. In this case, it was simply a matter of extracting the files. Doesn't even need an installer. Download, unrar, doubleclick on executable. Easier than going to a store and buying the DVD. Faster, too.

In general, I find pirate downloads and installs to be much faster and easier than legitimate ones. Bittorrent is even faster than Steam.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Origin reminds me of the new b.net more than Steam.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:51 am 
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Talya wrote:
Raltar wrote:
You have to have Origin even if you get the physical copy.


No you don't. Buy a DVD copy of the game, download a cracked copy. Play legally without origin.

Can't do multiplayer, but there will be "readiness hacks" to get around that irritating requirement...


You still need to install origin to install the game from the DVD. There's no getting around that part. Unless you want to download the entire game illegally. In which case, why did you bother buying the DVD in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:10 am 
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Caleria wrote:
You still need to install origin to install the game from the DVD. There's no getting around that part. Unless you want to download the entire game illegally. In which case, why did you bother buying the DVD in the first place.


That's not how software piracy law works at all. First of all, I didn't say "Download a crack." I said "Download a cracked copy of the game." Downloading copies is not illegal at all. Using software you haven't paid for is illegal. Installing software you haven't paid for is illegal. Downloading, not so much. And since you paid for it already, you have a legal right to use it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:47 am 
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By defeating the copy protection you are, at the very least, violating the terms of service. I'm not up to speed on current Intellectual Property law, but I'm pretty sure it's against the law in the US.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:29 am 
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Not to mention, I don't think it's been tested whether downloading is a violation of copyright even if having the copy is fair use. Copyright gives the rights holder the authority to dictate and restrict the distribution of material, after all.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:55 am 
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Well, regardless, sharing the game could get you in trouble (extremely long odds, but it has happened), so you'd want to turn off uploading in BT if you downloaded it. (Nobody has ever gotten dinged for downloading anything...just sharing.)

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Well, regardless, sharing the game could get you in trouble (extremely long odds, but it has happened), so you'd want to turn off uploading in BT if you downloaded it. (Nobody has ever gotten dinged for downloading anything...just sharing.)

Right, I suppose I worded myself carelessly. It doesn't stretch my mind that someday somebody will try to go after the recipient in a similar fashion to "receiving stolen property..." Whether it sticks is anybody's guess, as it's entirely in the hands of the judges it's presented to at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Talya wrote:
Well, regardless, sharing the game could get you in trouble (extremely long odds, but it has happened), so you'd want to turn off uploading in BT if you downloaded it. (Nobody has ever gotten dinged for downloading anything...just sharing.)

Right, I suppose I worded myself carelessly. It doesn't stretch my mind that someday somebody will try to go after the recipient in a similar fashion to "receiving stolen property..." Whether it sticks is anybody's guess, as it's entirely in the hands of the judges it's presented to at that point.


Legally, intellectual property is intangible, it cannot be stolen. Copies of the data are not the IP itself. Copyright represents the permissions to use that data. Those permissions cannot be stolen, only violated.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:15 pm 
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That's why I said "similar fashion" not "as an extension of..."

I'm not conflating violation of IP rights with theft. I'm saying that receiving stolen property is a crime because it promotes theft. Similarly, receiving information distributed in violation of IP holders' rights (or whatever you'd call it) promotes violating that IP holder's rights.

And I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing. I'm saying it won't surprise me if that kind of a case gets made in court someday in the future; and that it's just a judge agreeing away from having the weight of law.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Section 2 from Origin's Terms of Service

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2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at http://www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.


And the first part of Section 3

Quote:
3. Application Communications and Conduct/Privacy Settings

Your use of online features available via the Application is governed by EA’s Terms of Service, available at http://www.ea.com. By installing and using this Application you acknowledge and agree that you will abide by EA’s Terms of Service and otherwise agree not to:

● Create a false identity for purposes of misleading others;
● Defame, abuse, harass, threaten, spam, violate the rights of others and/or otherwise interfere with others’ use and enjoyment of the Application;
● Publish, transfer or distribute any inappropriate, indecent, obscene, foul or unlawful conduct;
● Transfer, stream or otherwise make available material that contains viruses, Trojan horses, worms, time bombs, cancel bots, corrupted files or any other similar material that may damage the computer or other property of another user;
● Use any portion of the Application to harvest or collect information about others, including but not limited to email address.

EA reserves the right to monitor communications on the Application and disclose any information EA deems necessary to (i) ensure your compliance with this License; (ii) satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process; (iii) protect the rights, property and interests of EA, its employees or the public. EA also reserves the right to edit, refuse to transfer and/or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in EA’s sole discretion.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Of note, EULA's have not been consistently held up in court as legal contracts. They work fairly consistently passively, preventing lawsuits against the company for things that are against the EULA, but do not work actively, enforcing software users to codes of behavior stated in it.

Furthermore, downloading a copy of the game, you never see the EULA, and since you never even unwrapped your purchased DVD, you never agreed to it or even looked at it unless you went online to look for it--one more technicality that any court in the world would agree with.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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