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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:47 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
I don't understand how Apple is not getting sued for playing a monopoly. Wasn't Microsoft sued because they pre-loaded IE onto their desktops? I fail to see how Apple pre-loading Crapple Maps is any different.

The issue with IE was that Microsoft was leveraging a natural monopoly in the OS market to create a monopoly in another market.

Apple doesn't have Microsoft's PC market share in the mobile world. iPhones may be the largest market-share for individual hardware models, and iOS in the tablet world is probably around 80% (so approaching 90's Microsoft market-share), but in the phone market segment iOS is sitting around 30-35% last time I saw numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:17 am 
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Not only that, but iPhone users still have Google Maps for free via a web browser. All told, I suspect more people use maps.google.com for their map needs than any other single map utility.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:15 am 
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It's worth pointing out that the web Google Maps can't access GPS data to offer Navigation features or quickly search "Directions from My Location."

So the web interface is a poor substitute for the native app.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:22 am 
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Google seems to be stalling on the native app. They're saying it will be ready to be released to the store sometime around Christmas at the earliest.

Kinda makes me wonder if they're stalling to make Apple look worse.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:29 am 
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NephyrS wrote:
Google seems to be stalling on the native app. They're saying it will be ready to be released to the store sometime around Christmas at the earliest.

Kinda makes me wonder if they're stalling to make Apple look worse.

Was there an app for Google turn-by-turn navigation prior to the new IOS?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:35 am 
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No. At least, not a standalone App Store app. I don't know the difference between the OS-integrated app and a standalone, Store-purchased one. I don't know what would be involved in simply repackaging the integrated app as a standalone.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:45 am 
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I think it's the fact that the integrated google map for iOS was coded by Apple, using Google info, and Google will have to start over from scratch.

And as bad as their other apps (cough*gmail*cough) have been, I'm not holding my breath for something seamless.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:05 am 
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I totally forgot, didn't Apple kick YouTube off their devices too?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:14 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
I totally forgot, didn't Apple kick YouTube off their devices too?


Kinda

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:30 am 
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They removed the internal app (with the stupid old-TV icon) that I can't ever remember using in the first place...but there's been a YouTube app on the App Store now for a couple of weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the web Google Maps can't access GPS data to offer Navigation features or quickly search "Directions from My Location."

So the web interface is a poor substitute for the native app.


Yes it can. And does.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Yeah, def. does.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Oh, okay. I didn't realize it could. That's neat, at least. And a little crazy, actually. Maybe scary, even? Does it tell you it's trying to access your location when it does so, or can web sites just access GPS info at will with no warning if you've got GPS turned on?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the web Google Maps can't access GPS data to offer Navigation features or quickly search "Directions from My Location."

So the web interface is a poor substitute for the native app.

If my understanding is correct it cannot verbally provide the turn-by-turn directions. Maybe that is what you are thinking?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the web Google Maps can't access GPS data to offer Navigation features or quickly search "Directions from My Location."

So the web interface is a poor substitute for the native app.

If my understanding is correct it cannot verbally provide the turn-by-turn directions. Maybe that is what you are thinking?

That's part of what I was thinking, yeah. Can it provide the turn-by-turn directions and update what to do next as you turn/miss turns?

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"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Google Maps on iOS has never been able to function as an actual GPS. It behaves as the desktop website version does: plug in your start, plug in your destination, and it lists out a list of directions.

It can find your current location (but you have to authorize it first) and auto-populate that as your starting point ("Current Location;" the desktop version tries to do this, but fails, for me at least, almost 100% of the time). However, after that, you pick your path, and you're locked into that. It does track your location, but if you get off of its prescribed route, you just have an aimless blue dot floundering in the wilderness, while you manually try to get that blue dot back to the purple line of your route, like the world's worst Square-Enix-on-a-Gamecube game.

Even when built into the OS, Google Maps on iOS was never a full-fledged GPS (i.e. voiced turn-by-turn navigation with constant route correction). Apple Maps does have that functionality.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:55 pm 
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Got it. I've been on Android for 3 years (I think?) now, and I guess I was assuming that the iOS implementation had been evolving in parallel with the Android Google Maps/Navigation.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:01 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Even when built into the OS, Google Maps on iOS was never a full-fledged GPS (i.e. voiced turn-by-turn navigation with constant route correction). Apple Maps does have that functionality.


Ah, so that explains why you would rather have Apple Maps over Google Maps.

I was under the same impression as Kaffis that you had supped from the beauty and wonder that is Google Navigation and found its nectar disagreebale to your Apple tainted palates.

Instead, you got only the scraps and leavings that your iOverlords allowed you and are just happy to have turn by turn. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Decent writeup on iOS6 vs Jelly Bean, http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/25/ ... jelly-bean

Relevant part:
IGN wrote:
We won't draw this out: Google Maps beats Apple Maps. Is Apple's satellite 3D view cool? Sure (when it works), but we'd still take Street View any day.

Google's turn-by-turn navigation is better (even though Jelly Bean pushes it to a separate app), and with caching for offline map viewing it'll still work on the Nexus 7 after it's out of WiFi range. And there's walking directions, and public transportation, and Google's patently superior data-set - the product of a Maps workforce of more than 7000 employees.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:47 pm 
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So it seems that the reason Apple split off was that Google was refusing to bring the Turn-by-Turn that they'd set up for Android systems to iOS without some fairly significant concessions on the part of Apple, in the sense of Google Advertising and branding.

And since there was only a year left on the contract, Apple decided to get their own out before Google.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Tim Cook Apologizes, encourages users to use alternatives..

http://news.yahoo.com/apple-ceo-apologi ... ector.html

Yahoo News wrote:
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Apple Inc Chief Executive Tim Cook apologized Friday to customers frustrated with glaring errors in its new Maps service and, in an unusual move for the consumer giant, directed them to rival services such as Google Inc's Maps instead.
The rare apology follows Apple's launch of its own mapping service earlier this month, when it began selling the iPhone 5 and rolled out iOS 6, the highly anticipated update to its mobile software platform.
Users complained that the new Maps service - based on Dutch navigation equipment and digital map maker TomTom NV's data - contained geographical errors and gaps in information, and that it lacked features that made Google Maps so popular from public transit directions to traffic data and street-view pictures.
"We are extremely sorry for the frustration this has caused our customers and we are doing everything we can to make Maps better," Cook said in a letter to customers released on its website, adding that the company "fell short" of its commitment to deliver "the best experience possible to our customers."
Unusually, he suggested that customers download rival mapping services available in Apple's App Store while the company improves the product.
"While we're improving Maps, you can try alternatives by downloading map apps from the App Store like Bing, MapQuest and Waze, or use Google or Nokia maps by going to their websites and creating an icon on your home screen to their web app," he said in the letter.
Apple is typically loathe to tout rival services and the contrite apology by Cook is an indication of how Apple is changing under the chief executive who took over last year from co-founder Steve Jobs just before his death. It also took the additional step of prominently displaying the rival services on its Apps Store.
"It is a bit unusual but at the same time, Tim is keeping Apple's commitment to provide the best user experience for customers," Sterne Agee analyst Shaw Wu said. "A key reason for Apple's success is keeping customers happy so we think this is a good move."
"People forget that Google Maps started out inferior to Mapquest and Yahoo Maps," he added.
Apple's home-grown Maps feature -- stitched together by acquiring mapping companies and data from many providers including Waze, Intermap, DigitalGlobe and Urban Mapping -- was introduced with much fanfare in June by software chief Scott Forstall. It was billed as one of the key highlights of the updated iOS6 software.
But errors and omissions in the maps service quickly emerged after the software was rolled out, ranging from misplaced buildings and mislabelled cities to duplicated geographical features.
NEW APPLE
The last time Apple faced such widespread criticism was in 2010, when users complained of signal reception issues on the then-new iPhone 4 model.
A defiant Jobs at the time rejected any suggestion the iPhone 4's design was flawed, but offered consumers free phone cases at a rare, 90-minute press conference called to address those complaints.
While Apple fixed the issue, Jobs had apologized to users only after he was specifically asked if he was sorry. He also said the issue was shared by all the major manufacturers, naming rivals Research in Motion, Samsung Electronics and HTC Corp.
Cook himself played a key role in convincing Jobs to tackle the negative publicity that arose around that issue, something he was initially reluctant to do, according to his biographer.
"Finally Tim Cook was able to shake him out of his lethargy," Walter Isaacson said in his biography on the late Silicon Valley icon. "He quoted someone as saying that Apple was becoming the new Microsoft, complacent and arrogant. The next day Jobs changed his attitude."
It remains to be seen how fast Apple can fix the mapping glitches. Jobs had been in a similar position when he allowed email synchronization software MobileMe to launch in 2008, to deadly reviews. The mercurial CEO took the group to task for it and replaced the group's head. The service is now folded into the iCloud product.
Mapping is a complex process that takes a lot of resources and years to perfect, said Marcus Thielking, co-founder of Skobbler, maker of the popular GPS Navigation 2 app, built using the crowdsourced OpenStreetMap platform.
"It helps a lot if you have great data to start with," he said, adding that it appears that different database were thrown together in building Apple Maps. "They (Apple) can offer incremental updates and that's what they will do."
Cook said that more than 100 million iOS devices are using the new Apple Maps and that the more people use Maps, the better it will get. He also offered some hints on why the company decided to remove Google Maps.
Apple launched the Google-powered Maps "initially with the first version of iOS" and created a home-grown version of the service as it wanted to provide more features, Cook said.
"As time progressed, we wanted to provide our customers with even better Maps including features such as turn-by-turn directions, voice integration, Flyover and vector-based maps," he said in the letter.
Google provides turn-by-turn navigation on Android-based devices but the popular feature was not available for Apple devices. Apple Maps replaced Google Maps in iOS 6 and the Google service is now only available through a browser.
Shares of Apple fell 2 percent to close at $667.10 on Nasdaq.
(Editing by Edwin Chan and Richard Chang)


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