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 Post subject: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:05 am 
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I'm in the market for a new laptop, but it's been years since I paid attention to the tech that's out there, so I'm hoping y'all can give me some advice. Here's the basic idea: I need a desktop-replacement laptop (mostly going to be used at home, just don't want to be tied to my desk) that's solid for everything from normal productivity/office apps to multimedia (incl. Blu-Ray) to gaming. Budget is $2000. Any advice or recommendations?


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:39 pm 
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I did not get Blu Ray, but it was the best effing $1100 I have ever spent

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:57 pm 
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$2000 will buy you a lot of laptop.

I don't have any specific recommendations, but I will say, that assuming you are looking for a Windows based system, that the systems that Microosoft sells through the Microsoft Store have a really awesome feature. 'Microsoft Signature Edition'. No pre-installed crap, no trial ware, no vendor stuff.. nothing except a base windows install.

Here is their online store
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/mss ... D.50787200

If there is a store in your area, you might wander in and check it out in person. They are pretty cool.

The one laptop I might recommend is the one I use at work. It's the Lenovo W520. For me, it's an ideal work machine, as it has a really nice docking system that allows connecting multiple monitors. The specs are great, and it's really durable.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/prof ... index.html


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 Post subject: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:53 pm 
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I'd actually consider something tiny and light and pair it with thunderbolt external drives, monitors, Ethernet, etc.

Depends how portable it needs to be though - carry to the den, or fly 4000 miles?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:56 pm 
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For desktop replacement?

That's easy.

http://usa.asus.com/Notebooks/Gaming_Po ... ifications

Note, however, that it is a desktop replacement. It's not designed to run a long time on a battery charge. It is very big (not overly heavy, but you can't put the nicest 17.3" laptop screen on the market on a small laptop).

I have the G73, it's over two years old. I have loved it. It's very portable from an "Easy to bring with you" standpoint. But you need someplace to set it up to use it, like a table or desk. You're not going to open it on a park bench.

Price-to-performance (not to mention reliability), you won't find better. Generally they run from just under $1400 to approaching $1700, depending on configuration.

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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Thanks for the advice. To throw another option in the mix, what do you think about one of the new Macbook Pros as an alternative? My gf is pretty hyped about getting one (we'll be sharing this laptop), and even though I'm reluctant to pay the Apple premium, they do look pretty decent spec-wise. I know I'd have to create a Windows partition to play most PC games, but once I've done that, would it be comparable to the mid- to high-end non-Apple laptops in terms of both quality and power/performance?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:46 pm 
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The top end ones are incomparable to anything else on the market today.

Upside: Amazing resolution screen, very thin for the spec, no weight for legacy crap like optical drives or ethernet ports. 2 thunderbolt ports means it can drive 3 external monitors & the internal. 2 GPUs, one decent, one low battery draw. Light for what you get.

Pretty decent CPU, GPU, etc. 7 hours battery life.

Downside: completely non upgradable - buy the 16gb 512gb version because everything is soldered on. The GPU is ok for a laptop, but the built in screen is such high rez that its probably going to need you to downscale games (Not validated, just an opinion - all those pixels come with a downside).

Because nobody else makes anything like it, its REALLY expensive.

I want one, but right now the price is just too high while Im doing rennovations and things. If I had $2k burning a hole in my pocket, that's what I'd buy though. 4 CPU, 16gb ram, 512gb SSD, thunderbolt is a desktop replacement, and a 2880 by 1800 screen in 15" is just delicious if you do a lot of text reading or photo work.

If youre thinking MBP, I might also consider a 1 gen old i7 with the 'high rez' screen, and a spinning disk. I imagine (havent checked) their prices must have crashed with the CPU upgrades in the 'legacy' MBPs out now, and the super duper shiny of the retina/SSD pro. But its really not as nice. And you know you didnt have the super nice one.

I highly recommend OSX over windows. I have both win7 & snow leopard, and I prefer snow leopard every time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:06 pm 
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SuiNeko wrote:

Because nobody else makes anything like it,Apple likes to rape their customers, its REALLY expensive.


ftfy. A comparable power windows box would be what, half the price? And you wouldn't have to dual boot.

So the 15" MBP is something like $2200... and a Dell box with similar specs is $1000.

**** Apple.

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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 pm 
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The original statement was more accurate. Apple has a very specific market, but it's quickly expanding and it's okay if you don't find yourself in it. That's why other companies are in business too, but it hardly translates to "Apple likes to rape customers". While you can find similar horsepower under the hoods of cheaper laptops, you're sacrificing build quality, operating system user experience and some pretty great customer support. These things matter to many people, and it's not always about how much FPS you can squeeze out of ****.

That's completely ignoring the league-of-its-own screen plus other nice things you'll find yourself with if you purchase a new MBP, but I don't feel like typing out a feature list right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:01 pm 
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While I'm inclined to agree with you, Lenas, that Müs' statement was out of line and trollish, it's my understanding that a few non-Apple manufacturers are rapidly closing the build quality and aesthetic gap, if they haven't already finished closing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
The original statement was more accurate. Apple has a very specific market, but it's quickly expanding and it's okay if you don't find yourself in it. That's why other companies are in business too, but it hardly translates to "Apple likes to rape customers". While you can find similar horsepower under the hoods of cheaper laptops, you're sacrificing build quality, operating system user experience and some pretty great customer support. These things matter to many people, and it's not always about how much FPS you can squeeze out of ****.

That's completely ignoring the league-of-its-own screen plus other nice things you'll find yourself with if you purchase a new MBP, but I don't feel like typing out a feature list right now.


I picked the one without the "OMGSOPRETTYYESTAKEMYMONEY" "Retina" display to compare. It was still over a thousand dollars of difference. An OS that won't do everything I need it to is useless to me, so I'll never be a mac customer.

Macs are still *way* overpriced for what they are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
While I'm inclined to agree with you, Lenas, that Müs' statement was out of line and trollish, it's my understanding that a few non-Apple manufacturers are rapidly closing the build quality and aesthetic gap, if they haven't already finished closing it.


Its only trollish if you're blinded by Apple's marketing and are willing to fork out twice the price for a comparable computer.

Which isn't to say that Macs are *bad*. I'm sure they're perfectly capable browsing and multimedia editing boxes. They're just hideously overpriced because Apple knows that people will pay them to be trendy and "cool".

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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:24 am 
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Müs wrote:
I picked the one without the "OMGSOPRETTYYESTAKEMYMONEY" "Retina" display to compare. It was still over a thousand dollars of difference.

The premium is seriously that high? Double the price?


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 Post subject: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:52 am 
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Müs wrote:
Lenas wrote:
The original statement was more accurate. Apple has a very specific market, but it's quickly expanding and it's okay if you don't find yourself in it. That's why other companies are in business too, but it hardly translates to "Apple likes to rape customers". While you can find similar horsepower under the hoods of cheaper laptops, you're sacrificing build quality, operating system user experience and some pretty great customer support. These things matter to many people, and it's not always about how much FPS you can squeeze out of ****.

That's completely ignoring the league-of-its-own screen plus other nice things you'll find yourself with if you purchase a new MBP, but I don't feel like typing out a feature list right now.


I picked the one without the "OMGSOPRETTYYESTAKEMYMONEY" "Retina" display to compare.
.


That's nice, but it's not the laptop the statement was made about, so something of a straw man in response to me.

As for importance of operating system ... Sure. Which is why I am a mac customer. Of course , I know unix and not NT, so.


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Thanks for the advice. To throw another option in the mix, what do you think about one of the new Macbook Pros as an alternative? My gf is pretty hyped about getting one (we'll be sharing this laptop), and even though I'm reluctant to pay the Apple premium, they do look pretty decent spec-wise. I know I'd have to create a Windows partition to play most PC games, but once I've done that, would it be comparable to the mid- to high-end non-Apple laptops in terms of both quality and power/performance?


Macbooks are way over priced for what you get, IMO they have a kind of ugly industrial design (of course that's based on personal opinion), they have one of those stupid chicklet keyboards instead of a normal easier to type on one, and the have no number pad, plus most software especially games are writen for Windows not Mac, and such a high res display is even worse of an idea if you do anything that is 3D because they use an under powered video card so you get to deal with blurry interpolated images.

Just as comparison between the computer I got recently (Alienware M17x R4) and a Macbook Pro and even Alienware is considered "overpriced"

Macbook: $2199
M17x: $2049 (as ordered $1769 and I did my own memory/HDD upgrade because it's more cost effected so $50 for 8GB of RAM and $230 240GB SSD)

Macbook CPU: 2.3Ghz Ivy Bridge
M17x CPU: 2.3Ghz Ivy Bridge

Macbook RAM: 8GB
M17x RAM: 8GB

Macbook GPU: Nvidia GT 650M 1GB + Intel HD 4000
M17x GPU: AMD 7970m 2GB + Intel HD 4000

Macbook Storage: 256GB SSD
M17x Storage: 240GB SSD + 500GB 7200rpm HDD

Macbook Display: 15" 2880 x 1800
M17x Display: 17.3" 1920 x 1080

Macbook: 802.11n, bluetooth 4.0, generic audio
M17x 802.11n, bluetooth 4.0, soundblaster audio


The only real advantages there is the screen res which isn't good if you want to make use of your video card and it is thin and light, really the macbook pro is more of a standard laptop/large ultrabook and not a desktop replacement. Also it's not even an apples to apples comparison since it's comparing a more expensive 17" chassis to a 15" chassis


Oh and I will say the M7x R4 is an amazing laptop, the customizable lighting is great, the screen is very vibrant with good viewing angles and it eats thru any game I throw at it at 1080p with FAAA and AF on, and honestly for what it comes with it's not really overpriced imo, you would be hard pressed to find something with comparable specs for much cheaper if at all. It really is great for a desktop replacement which is exactly what I use it for, I stopped using my actual desktop entirely since buying it.


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:30 am 
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We could debate all day the virtues of Macbooks and OSX versus Windows, but suffice it to say that I disagree with you Mus. Not all Apple fans, like Farsky, Suineko and I are mouth-breathing idiots falling for marketing. These are great products that we took a chance with, spent some good money on, and fell in love with. For good reasons.

RD, as you can see, it's not always so easy. I suggest going to a store and using these computers some before making a decision. There are some benefits to OSX that are hard to qualify to someone that doesn't have experience with it, like the fact that the multitouch gestures have completely changed my daily workflow. This is something I can't do in Windows and now I'm frustrated every time I use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
, like the fact that the multitouch gestures have completely changed my daily workflow. This is something I can't do in Windows and now I'm frustrated every time I use it.


Why can't you do that with Windows? both of my Windows laptops do multitouch gestures, I think that's pretty standard on any Windows laptop now a days.


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:22 pm 
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I've never seen good support for multitouch in Windows. The few times I have seen it, it's been limited to 2 points of contact and it's nothing compared to being able to make custom actions for touch up to 10 points (OSX recognizes up to 4-5 I believe by default, but the trackpad can recognize more and apps can raise that ceiling to 10). Plus, Windows doesn't have a very good equivalent to Mission Control, Expose or Spaces that I've found.

I've gotten to the point where I'm considering getting rid of my mouse at work in lieu of a stand alone trackpad and my Wacom tablet. Clicking a mouse is so 90's. The only reason I even have one at home right now is for Diablo.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:00 pm 
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I've never had an issues with it on either of my laptops, it works just fine, and it does support at least up to 3 points of contact since one of the commands uses a 3 finger tap, of course I just find the multitouch as something the limit the crutch of not having a real mouse when i'm sitting on the couch with the laptop on my lap, whenever it's on my desk I use the mouse though since I find it way faster to do anything, even compared to a multitouch trackpad.

As for Mission Control & Expose, I guess that's a matter of preference, I prefer Windows 7's Aero Flip 3D and Aero Peak for managing multiple windows, and I don't see any benefit of Spaces personally, it just buries programs I want to use further down, of course i'm not one of those OCD people that has to have every program open on their computer at once I don't find that i've ever had issues managing multiple programs open even in the Windows XP days.

Really I find Mac and Windows do the same things, just in different ways, and most Mac people want a Mac just because they are hipsters and want to be "different" but still do the same thing as everyone else, just in a different way.


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 Post subject: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:33 pm 
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You know, I'm not calling windows users impoverished insecure cretins, so could we cut out the assumptions of idiocy and stick to product comparisons?


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Kaffis:
Yeah, PC manufacturers are starting to take notice, but aren't quite there yet. The only laptops I've heard of matching the aluminum MB build quality have been the 15" Samsung Series 9, which starts at $1500, but it doesn't have very good viewing angles or a particularly nice keyboard. Looking at reviews It also *barely* out-performs the 2011 Macbook Air in benchmarks, so I'm sure it's not even as powerful (see, Mus?) as the current 2012 MBA, which is $1199 for a 13".

All this said, it's kind of a moot point if Blu-Ray is important to RD. No Apple products come with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:06 pm 
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I also know that Khross was raving about some model of Dell several months ago "out-Appling Apple" or some such. *shrug*

Also, this is too timely and relevant to not post, even if it comes off as vaguely trollish...

Orbitz Worldwide Inc. (OWW) has found that people who use Apple Inc.'s (AAPL) Mac computers spend as much as 30% more a night on hotels, so the online travel agency is starting to show them different, and sometimes costlier, travel options than Windows visitors see.

The Orbitz effort, which is in its early stages, demonstrates how tracking people's online activities can use even seemingly innocuous information—in this case, the fact that customers are visiting Orbitz.com from a Mac—to start predicting their tastes and spending habits.

Orbitz executives confirmed that the company is experimenting with showing different hotel offers to Mac and PC visitors, but said the company isn't showing the same room to different users at different prices. They also pointed out that users can opt to rank results by price.

Image

Orbitz found Mac users on average spend $20 to $30 more a night on hotels than their PC counterparts, a significant margin given the site's average nightly hotel booking is around $100, chief scientist Wai Gen Yee said. Mac users are 40% more likely to book a four- or five-star hotel than PC users, Mr. Yee said, and when Mac and PC users book the same hotel, Mac users tend to stay in more expensive rooms.

"We had the intuition, and we were able to confirm it based on the data," Orbitz Chief Technology Officer Roger Liew said.

The sort of targeting undertaken by Orbitz is likely to become more commonplace as online retailers scramble to identify new ways in which people's browsing data can be used to boost online sales. Orbitz lost $37 million in 2011 and its stock has fallen by more than 74% since its 2007 IPO.

The effort underscores how retailers are becoming bigger users of so-called predictive analytics, crunching reams of data to guess the future shopping habits of customers. The goal is to tailor offerings to people believed to have the highest "lifetime value" to the retailer.

Orbitz first confirmed Mac users' preferences in October and began working them into the complicated mix of factors that determine its search results. The effect isn't always obvious. In tests performed by The Wall Street Journal, search results for hotels in cities including Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia and Boston were the same for both Macs and PCs. A New York search turned up more expensive hotels for Mac users, but only after the first 20 listed.

Other searches showed more significant differences. A Mac search for a hotel in Miami Beach for two nights in July displayed costlier boutique hotels on the first page of results, such as Sagamore, the Art Hotel and the Boulan South Beach, that weren't displayed on the PC's first page. Among hotels appearing in both searches, some pricier options (such as the $212 Eden Roc Renaissance and the $397 Fontainebleau) were listed higher on the Mac. Overall, hotels on the first page of the Mac search were about 11% more expensive than they were on the PC.

Similarly, hotels on the first page of results for Baton Rouge, La., appeared in different order for Mac and PC and were 13% more expensive in aggregate for the Mac search.
Rival travel sites Expedia Inc. (EXPE), Priceline.com Inc. (PCLN) and Travelocity, which is a unit of Sabre Holdings Corp., don't use a person's computer operating system when suggesting hotels, spokesmen said. Apple declined to comment.

Neil Sazant, president of Sagamore, reacted with a mix of admiration and concern to the algorithm. "That's incredible, but I wouldn't want to miss out on PC users," he said. Mr. Sazant says about 15% of rooms at the 93-room hotel are booked through a mix of online sites like Orbitz and that appearing on the first page of results is important in those searches.

Image

Orbitz's chief executive, Barney Harford, has made data mining a priority. Shortly after joining the company in 2009, the former Expedia executive opened a small office in Sunnyvale, Calif., and recruited statisticians with backgrounds from eBay Inc. (EBAY) and Google Inc. (GOOG) for a new analytics team.
Digging into the data, the team found some hotels were far more likely to be booked by Mac users. Nearly half of bookings on Orbitz for the Public Chicago—a high-end Chicago hotel that boasts features such as "lobby socializing"—come from Mac visitors, said Mr. Liew of Orbitz.

Erica Spayd, a store designer from Queens, N.Y., uses Orbitz to reserve flights and hotels from time to time using her MacBook Pro. "It's clever," the 31-year-old said of Orbitz's Mac targeting. "As long as there's an option to sort by price I'm fine with it."

Orbitz said the effort to incorporate Mac vs. PC distinctions is still in its formative stages and isn't evident across the site. Other factors have more influence over results, Mr. Liew said, including a user's location and history on the site, as well as a hotel's overall popularity and promotions. Still, he said, use of a Mac can influence results.

Apple users already stand out as big spenders. Nearly half of retailers in a recent study by Forrester Research and Shop.org said users of tablets—a large majority of which are iPads—tend to place bigger online orders than users of laptops or desktops. Shoppers on Apple devices like iPhones also outspend shoppers using Android or BlackBerry devices, accounting for half of all mobile purchases, according to International Business Machines, which tracks data from retailers.

Fashion site Rue La La pays close attention to iPhone and iPad users, who account for 75% of all of its mobile orders, said CEO Ben Fischman.

Companies are just starting to look at whether users of Macs, who make up just 9.8% of the U.S. personal -computer market, according to market research firm Gartner, might exhibit similar characteristics. The average household income for adult owners of Mac computers is $98,560, compared with $74,452 for a PC owner, according to Forrester.

The average household income for adult owners of Mac computers is $98,560, compared with $74,452 for a PC owner, according to Forrester.

Eventually, Orbitz may start to test if Mac users have identifiable preferences for car rentals and flight bookings.

Some of the Criteria Orbitz Uses: Hotel Discounts, Browsing Activity
A computer's operating system is one of several factors Orbitz considers when serving up search results. The top results, for instance, are reserved for hotels that pay Orbitz for high-profile placement.
Other criteria:
Deals: When hotels offer discounts, those properties move higher in the search results for all visitors.
Referring site: Orbitz makes assumptions about users' spending habits based on how they arrive at the site. If a shopper enters Orbitz through Kayak.com, which aggregates offers from travel sites, it might indicate a user is more sensitive about price than a visitor coming from review-focused Trip-Advisor, who may be more interested in hotel ratings.
Return visits: Booking history as well as other previous activity on the site also come into play. Using purchase history from logged-in visitors, the site knows if a user has repeatedly looked at certain hotel chains and may display those properties higher in the results.
Location: Orbitz considers where a shopper is booking from. Using past purchase data, Orbitz considers the types of hotels New Yorkers tend to book when visiting Miami, for example, and takes those properties into account.


Sui, maybe you should start referring to Windows users as impoverished cretins. :derp:

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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:12 pm 
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It does seem like the Dell XPS 14 is getting pretty solid reviews, I'll give ya that. I have a pretty bad track record with Dells breaking down though so I tend to avoid them. Engadget's review does mention that the benchmarks are "thoroughly underwhelming" compared to the new MBA, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
All this said, it's kind of a moot point if Blu-Ray is important to RD. No Apple products come with it.

You can still connect an external Blu-Ray player via the Firewire or USB ports, though, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Laptop Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Yes, you could do that if you didn't mind the external.


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