The Glade 4.0

Edit: Updated with bottom reply for newcomers to the thread.

Bump for poll.

I'm close to getting one. I'm leaning toward the Kindle, I looked at the nook over the weekend (nice but had some flaws...nothing deal-breaking), I could wait for an iPad, or get a Sony Reader.

Pros v. cons:

Kindle
Pros:
The Kindle is the industry leader, and is on its second hardware revision. Mistakes from the first have been corrected. Very highly-regarded as an e-reader. Can purchase on Amazon with free two-day (or $3.99 one-day) shipping due to Amazon Prime membership and with no taxes added to drive up the price. Best prices on books, excellent selection. Kindle applications for Mac and iPhone help me maximize my e-book investments, allowing me to virtually always be around an outlet on which to read them. No restocking fee if returned within 30 days, so it has a nice trial application. Whispernet is awesome (synchronized bookmarks across all viewing outlets? Yes please). Best battery life.

Cons:
Ugly negative-image-flash page transition. Can't lend books (not much of an issue, since I know no one else with an e-reader). Whispernet probably not available in many areas I frequent (though I have wi-fi at the house, so this is mainly a traveling issue). Easily the ugliest of the readers. No back-light.

nook
Pros:
Largest e-book store available. Prices equal to Amazon, for both hardware and e-books. Nook applications for Mac and iPhone help me maximize my e-book investments, allowing me to virtually always be around an outlet on which to read them. Much more attractive than the Kindle, including color touchscreen and cover flow library. Many books are lendable. Free reading of entire books inside Barnes & Noble stores (not relegated to samples). Supports ePub.

Cons:
Ugly negative-image-flash page transition. No B&N stores for about an hour's drive (may change soon). Slightly lesser battery life than Kindle. Rather unintuitive menu system. Touchscreen seems a little unresponsive. Slow to load. No back-light.

iPad
Pros:
Gorgeous reading interface, with animated page turns and swooshy sounds. Much more than just an e-reader (runs App Store apps, full web browser, multimedia player, etc.). Back-lit. Will work with already-established full Mac environment.

Cons:
Not out yet. Much pricier than Kindle or nook (comparing low-end versions of all). Will probably not compete in battery life arena with nook or Kindle.

Sony Reader
Pros:
Attractive design. Full touchscreen on Touch model. Pocket model is $60 cheaper than Kindle or nook.

Cons:
Bookstore has lesser selection and more expensive books. Pocket model has smaller screen than Kindle or nook. Hardware (Touch) is $40 more expensive than Kindle or nook entry-level devices. Reviews have voiced concern over build quality (screens cutting out months after purchase).



Original post:
I've become rather fascinated by the Kindle of late. I treated myself to a new iPod Touch (a good substitute for the iPhone I have been denied for so long...o AT&T/Alltel merger, when will you put an end to your fickle ways?), and downloaded the Kindle app for it (along with several other e-readers, my favorite of which being Classics, but that's a case wherein a fixed library is set).

I have to say, it's reinvigorated my ability to read, perhaps due to my acclimation to electronic reading, perhaps due to the ubiquitousness of my iPod. But travel, downtime, even work is now fair grounds for reading, which can be done easily and quickly and without cumbersome physical media.

I'm waiting fervently for the Kindle for Mac application to be released, but I'm also intrigued by the Kindle itself. I have unfortunately been unable to lay my hands upon one for rigorous personal testing, but I understand it's a fair bit different than, say, reading on an LCD screen. The vaunted "e-ink" technology, for instance.

Does anyone have any light to share on the Kindle? As soon as I save up the money, I'm definitely thinking this will be a purchase.

Edit: Hmm...this looks to be interesting...

I love that classics app.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I've always fancied a Kindle too. Not sure if they are available in Canada or not though.

I wish the Classics app would update with more books, as was promised.

I suggest GizReader as well; I've tried a ton of other readers and it's the closest to the Classics app I've been able to find, bit has a far superior library (and actual updates!). It's called A Masterpiece Collection on the App Store.

While I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy the Kindle, there are several other e-books out there that you might also want to take a look at. I bought the Sony Reader back in October and have loved it. It was $100 cheaper than the Kindle, considerably smaller while maintaining roughly the same screen size (doesn't have a qwerty keypad), supports multiple file formats and allows me to download free books from Google Books and Project Gutenberg. Likewise, the Barnes & Noble Nook has all those features plus the wireless content delivery of the Kindle and has the added bonus of being on display in B&N locations everywhere so you can get your hands on it. The Nook also allows you to share your eBooks with others, although that feature does rely on other people having either their own Nooks or the Nook app for computer/iPhone.

_________________
Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

Bump for poll.

I'm close to getting one. I'm leaning toward the Kindle, I looked at the nook over the weekend (nice but had some flaws...nothing deal-breaking), I could wait for an iPad, or get a Sony Reader.

Pros v. cons:

Kindle
Pros:
The Kindle is the industry leader, and is on its second hardware revision. Mistakes from the first have been corrected. Very highly-regarded as an e-reader. Can purchase on Amazon with free two-day (or $3.99 one-day) shipping due to Amazon Prime membership and with no taxes added to drive up the price. Best prices on books, excellent selection. Kindle applications for Mac and iPhone help me maximize my e-book investments, allowing me to virtually always be around an outlet on which to read them. No restocking fee if returned within 30 days, so it has a nice trial application. Whispernet is awesome (synchronized bookmarks across all viewing outlets? Yes please). Best battery life.

Cons:
Ugly negative-image-flash page transition. Can't lend books (not much of an issue, since I know no one else with an e-reader). Whispernet probably not available in many areas I frequent (though I have wi-fi at the house, so this is mainly a traveling issue). Easily the ugliest of the readers. No back-light.

nook
Pros:
Largest e-book store available. Prices equal to Amazon, for both hardware and e-books. Nook applications for Mac and iPhone help me maximize my e-book investments, allowing me to virtually always be around an outlet on which to read them. Much more attractive than the Kindle, including color touchscreen and cover flow library. Many books are lendable. Free reading of entire books inside Barnes & Noble stores (not relegated to samples). Supports ePub.

Cons:
Ugly negative-image-flash page transition. No B&N stores for about an hour's drive (may change soon). Slightly lesser battery life than Kindle. Rather unintuitive menu system. Touchscreen seems a little unresponsive. Slow to load. No back-light.

iPad
Pros:
Gorgeous reading interface, with animated page turns and swooshy sounds. Much more than just an e-reader (runs App Store apps, full web browser, multimedia player, etc.). Back-lit. Will work with already-established full Mac environment.

Cons:
Not out yet. Much pricier than Kindle or nook (comparing low-end versions of all). Will probably not compete in battery life arena with nook or Kindle.

Sony Reader
Pros:
Attractive design. Full touchscreen on Touch model. Pocket model is $60 cheaper than Kindle or nook.

Cons:
Bookstore has lesser selection and more expensive books. Pocket model has smaller screen than Kindle or nook. Hardware (Touch) is $40 more expensive than Kindle or nook entry-level devices. Reviews have voiced concern over build quality (screens cutting out months after purchase).

I vote Kindle.

The iPad is just a glorified iPhone. Also, the Kindle has free WiFi, on the iPad, you have to pay for it.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

I want a HUGE iphone though..

_________________


Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

In the middle of dinner her iPad rings, she hefts her briefcase up to the table and opens the lid, removes the padding, unstraps the phone from its safety carrier, pulls it out, answers it and starts talking. Too late, its gone to voice mail.

She looks around, sees half the diners in the restaurant looking at her sternly. She smiles wanly, stows the iPad safely away, she can return the call in a much less public place. As she places the briefcase back on the floor and checks to make sure the cuff is secure she hears the elderly lady two tables over tell her husband - "Its like I've been telling you since Woodstock Harry, SIZE DOES MATTER."

FarSky, those of my friends with Kindles love them, I'm about to get one myself, and don't know why I haven't gotten around to it. I'll go with the larger Kindle though - the little one is tough on my aging eyes as I like to see a page at a time.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Well, I've been using a Kindle since this Christmas, but since that's the only e-reader I've used, I can't really have an informed opinion about the others.

That said, my instincts say to avoid the iPad. Don't get me wrong, I like my iPod touch for it is, but the iPad just isn't turning me on. As you mentioned, the battery life is not going to be anywhere close to that of other e-readers that use "e-ink" displays.

On that note, the e-ink displays are really nice for this application. I wish all of our land surveying data collectors had this technology because it's perfectly readable at any angle and in direct, blinding, Texas sunlight. If you do all of your reading indoors, maybe that's not a huge issue, but it's worth considering those cases like reading during a long car trip (facing into the sun), or lazing about on the porch/deck/beach/etc. The essentially infinite viewing angle of e-ink displays is really nice, too. If you're like me, you wind up constantly shifting positions while reading in bed, and having that kind of viewing angle flexibility is nicer than you might think. You've correctly noted that there's kind of a funny transition process when changing the image. I thought this was kind of bizarre at first, too, but you get used to it. Comparing again to a physical book, it's probably less distracting than that ugly hand-in-front-of-your-face transition of physically turning a page. I don't really even notice it anymore, FWIW.

I think the other major strike against the iPad is Apple's history with DRM and pricing. All of these readers use DRM, of course, but Apple has embraced this pretty fully from the beginning. As much as I like their interface design (both aesthetically and functionally), and the overall quality of their products, Apple is and always has been very much a "closed" vendor. Closed hardware, of course, but also closed software -- i.e. Apple's iron grip on the iPod app store. I won'dt deny that there are some advantages to this approach, but it grates against my basic instincts when it comes to media and content.

Now, is the iPad going to be any more "closed" than other e-readers (just with respect to books, anyway)? It's hard to say for sure, but their past history suggests that they may be more willing to cave to pressures from publishers. Remember the good old days when every song on iTunes was $0.99? Yeah. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that department. But of course, this is where things get murky for some of the competitors. I'm not sure how to assess Amazon. On the one hand, their music sales have set a good precedent. Plain old non-DRM'd MP3 format for the masses. That establishes some history of paying more than just lip-service to the idea of open media formats and customer freedom. On the other hand, there was that whole fiasco with Amazon yanking some of Orwell's books from the Kindle when it was discovered that the publisher didn't actually possess copyrights. That's a little bit troubling, but all irony about 1984 aside, their actions were at least somewhat understandable. They've also been quite penitent about the whole affair. Bezos himself has been pretty scathing about the whole decision and promised that this wouldn't be repeated. My overall impression is that Amazon is at least trying to live by Google's "don't be evil" mantra. They've also shown a willingness to stand up to the publishers on e-book pricing, though certainly this has a lot to do with being the 800-pound gorilla.

I don't know where Barnes and Noble fits into this scheme. They're pricing hasn't been quite as competitive as Amazon's, but they do have some measure of lending features, which the Kindle doesn't really support (unless you trust someone enough to let them link their Kindle to your Amazon account).

Sony... is Sony. Based on their history of extremely bad DRM decisions and universally shitty customer service/relations, I'd be extremely wary of them. That's just my 2cp, though, and I don't pretend to be exactly objective.

So if you want my opinion, I'd probably put the iPad and the Sony at the bottom of the list. Having not used or made an in-depth investigation of the Nook, I can't offer any valid input about Kindle vs. Nook. All I can really offer is that I've enjoyed my Kindle so far.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

False, wifi comes packaged with all iPads. You pay for 3G if you want to be able to get books on the move.

Farsky,
I think it only fair to yourself to make a strong consideration for the iPad. Make no mistake, I am not a fan of the device, but if I were looking into a reader, that's the direction I would go. Yes it costs a little more. Consider however that you can part ways with your iPod (perhaps give to Phe?) if you pick one up. Consider also the size and the gratifying feedback using a swipe to turn the page. Being able to put on some music and read a book with the same device sounds like quite the enjoyable experience, to me.

@Others
Arguing the iPad is just a glorified iPhone is no argument at all. Of course it is. The iPhone is an amazing device. Yes, it's a locked system, but I don't think anyone is going to be worrying about switching carriers, or installing Linux on their iPad. DRM and pricing concerns are all based in the hypothetical. Also consider that Farsky is quite the Apple advocate and that it will likely be a very natural and enjoyable experience for him.

Yeh. It would be.

So does the iPad allow multitasking? Cause... the iPhone doesn't.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

Have you used an iPhone before? You're correct that most apps don't have it enabled, but the iPod, Safari and Mail apps on the iPhone can all run in the background.

That said, what in the world makes you think the iPad wont be cracked just like the iPhone is, to allow things like a third party app store? It will probably be even easier, because the hackers wont need to worry about changing basebands on multiple carriers.

No, I haven't used one for more than a few minutes. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a hater in the iPhone department. I like my iPod Touch, but to me, all it is is a music playing repository. Yes, the iPhone could do stuff that my Curve couldn't, but for a communications device, it was lackluster to me. No MMS at release (yes, I know they fixed that eventually), not being able to run IM clients in the background while browsing, pandoraing, etc... /shrug. Add to that... AT&T. /shudder. (Never. Again.)

I see the iPad as more of the same. Locked down hardware, locked to one platform of purchasing (iWords or something ), for an overpriced entry fee, on a substandard 3g network.

I'm just not impressed overall.

Edit to address your edit: Why should a user have to crack a device to get it to perform the things it should perform anyway? I'm sure it will be jailbroken in the first day of release (since it *is* just an oversixed iPhone on the same OS and basically the same hardware). It'll still be locked to the AT&T 3g network yes? And cracking it may invalidate your warranty yes?

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

If you had B&N locations nearby, I'd say Reader vs Nook might be a tough call; but without that, my vote is for the Reader.

Out of curiosity, why are you labeling "no back-light" as a *con*? The point of e-ink vs an LCD screen is to minimize eye strain (and also maximize battery life). A non-backlit screen is a *pro*.

_________________
Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

LCD screens don't bother my eyes. I've read for hours and hours on my little iPod Touch, with absolutely no feelings of strain or problems. Now CRTs.../shudder. Before I switched to LCD screens exclusively, I was eating Advil as though it were candy.

It's pretty much six of one, a half-dozen of the other as far as e-ink vs. LCD goes, then. With that in mind, backlit LCD screens thus allow me more versatility in viewing environs. If I'm reading in bed, I don't have to leave the lamp on if Phe's going to sleep, for instance (technically a poor example, as she doesn't mind the additional light, but you get the idea).

For the most part, though, I'm going to be using the e-reader where I would naturally read books, I would imagine, and those places are lit, at least well enough to read a book, the properties of which supposedly the e-ink display mimics. So I guess at the end of the day, e-ink vs. LCD doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but I guess I chalk up the lack of backlighting as a minor "con," just because of the viewing restrictions, but I give the e-ink readers a "pro" point for battery life.

Should you have to crack a device to do what you want with it? No. I do think that spending 5-10 minutes to alleviate your main gripe against the device is worth it, though. Your main argument against the iPhone/iPad is that they're locked down in a restricted environment. Cracking unlocks the device to any app developer. As for connectivity, if I were going to get an iPad, I wouldn't even bother with the 3G. I don't know about you, but pretty much anywhere I go (including bookstores like Barnes & Noble) has free wifi. There would be no contract to worry about plus another $130 off the entry price.

As far as the warranty goes, if the iPad ends up being anything like the iPhone/Touch, you can just restore to factory default and none of your modifications can be detected. It's not like water damage where they can take off a backplate and see if you're lying about dropping your phone in the toilet. It's a file system modification, one that can be erased and not found.

It's not necessarily about installing Linux or anything like that (I doubt FarSky would have any desire to). It's about what you will or won't be allowed to do with your device, and there are lots of ways that this can crop up besides major "hack" operations. The most obvious way that this can be an issue is sharing media between devices (or printing it), and sharing media with other people. The Kindle already does the first of these across a lot of platforms, and perhaps the iPad will as well. The Nook allows for some amount of media sharing. Apple has been considerably more restrictive with its DRM for music, and there's no reason to believe that this will change for print media.


Of course. But I do think that we can make some kind of inference about these issues based on past behavior. I don't think that's unreasonable.


Sure. But at the same time, while FarSky has clearly enjoyed plenty of Apple products in the past, he's also expressed a distaste for Apple's music DRM, preferring instead Amazon's music store. So I think it's a relevant question to ask, considering the buyer.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

So I misunderstood the implementation of the crack. The argument still stands, that one has to take extra steps to make a device perform the way that it should, the way many other *inferior* devices perform already. But that's probably my Apple h8 showing.

The way I see it, the iPhone has 3 strikes against it. In no particular order:
1) Lack of true multitasking
2) Locked development and the necessity of a 3rd party crack to allow it to work as I'd need.
3) AT&T.

1 and 3 are the real deal breakers for me. I will *never* *ever* use AT&T as long as I still draw breath. The multitasking thing just would annoy the hell out of me.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

Why do you keep bringing up AT&T? That's only if you get 3G and based on Farsky's choice of reading places, that would be a waste of $130.

True.

I was speaking of the iPhone for the most part, and I let the hate flow through me, embracing it, and allowing it to cloud my senses.

So, basically, if you don't get the 3g stuff, its not a big iPhone, its a big iPod touch. ;p

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

That's not multitasking in the same sense as other smart phones though.

My Droid for instance, can run Pandora in the background while doing other things such as web browsing. Something the iPhone can't do.

In fact, atm, I have a webpage up, Pandora running, and Zelda: A Link to the Past going on an emulator all at the same time here hehe.

The iPhone actually can do that, Apple just doesn't allow it. I suppose my argument will be invalidated, though, because you need to take 5 minutes to set it up.

[youtube]x9C0oFj40Ms[/youtube]

The question though, it *why* don't they allow it? Certainly having a feature like that is far better than not having it. It should just *work* like that out of the box.

Yes, you can take a few minutes to crack it and install a 3rd party app to manage it. However, for those that aren't savvy enough, or don't know about the jailbreak thing, to do so, they don't have the functionality that it should have.

I would wager that it frustrates people on a daily basis and they don't necessarily want to jailbreak a phone because of the negative connotation of the thing.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!