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Dead laptop
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4650		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Dead laptop
It was three years old, but I liked it. Fried motherboard leaves me thinking it is time to replace it entirely.

I'm looking for suggestions, trying to keep it under $1000, but my love of bells and whistles is making that difficult.

I want speed, power, media center ability, connectivity, good game playing chops, all that and a cherry on top, well, the cherry could be sacrificed.

Anyone here care to make any suggestions?

Thanks,
Author:  Müs [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have this one, and I absolutely adore it.

Samsung - Laptop / Intel® Core™ i5 Processor / 14" Display / 4GB Memory / 640GB Hard Drive - Aluminum
Model: QX410-J01 | SKU: 1255544

Bah, can't get the BB site to link no matter what I do.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/lapt ... X410-J01US
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dead page for me Mus, sorry.
Author:  Midgen [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Portability? Or is this just a mini-desktop?
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Portability is important, I've started traveling for the State again.
Author:  Müs [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
My Samsung would be great for portability :)
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm looking at it, think I'll go over to Best Buy and see if they have it, or something real close to it.
Author:  Taskiss [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Would you consider a Mac?
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have considered a Mac, the new Airbooks are very tempting and meet my needs. Unfortunately, I am not ready to go out and buy new Apple versions of all my software. Maybe next time, when I'll have to buy the new versions of the software anyway.
Author:  Taskiss [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
You do know that you can boot Windows on a Mac don't you?
Author:  Talya [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Taskiss wrote:
You do know that you can boot Windows on a Mac don't you?


Then you're not only paying the 50% premium to get the same hardware you'll get in a good PC, but you're also paying for OSX and not using it (since you have to buy windows separately.)

I'm a big fan of ASUS laptops, Micheal. Best quality and "bang or the buck." Since you need a bit of portability, this miniature version of my G73JH -- the G53JH -- is worth considering. at $1500, it's more than you want to spend, but you won't get better bang for your buck in a gaming laptop.

I have the 17.3" version. WHile it's big, it's pretty light. This one is only 15.6", so might be more appropriate to your portability requirement.

http://www.excaliberpc.com/598447/asus- ... ebook.html
Author:  Taskiss [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Talya wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
You do know that you can boot Windows on a Mac don't you?


Then you're not only paying the 50% premium to get the same hardware you'll get in a good PC, but you're also paying for OSX and not using it (since you have to buy windows separately.)

http://www.macgasm.net/2010/11/11/macbo ... ategories/
Quote:
Consumer Reports released their latest computer ratings last Tuesday, with the new MacBook Airs topping their 11″ and 13″ laptop categories, as well as earning the coveted “Recommended” stamp of approval.
...
In the 15″ laptop category, the 2.53 GHz MacBook Pro reigns supreme, as does the 17″ MacBook Pro in the 17″ category.

The only Consumer Reports laptop category where Apple does not appear is the 14″ category, simply because Apple does not produce a laptop in that size.


They're the best.

It may not be as apparent that they're the best when you first buy one compared to other laptops, but down the road it's obvious. I'd never waste money that comes out of my pocket buying hardware from any other vendor.

Plus, Micheal will have a Windows license from the previous laptop so there won't be a need for a separate license, and he'd be guaranteed compatibility with his software investment.

I'd certainly hope he'd use OS X and gradually stop using the Windows as he replaces his software (figure on getting a larger drive though). It's the best consumer operating system available and Apple has earned the best reputation for satisfaction out of all their competition.
Author:  Talya [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Why would he want to use an inferior operating system like OSX?

Macs are just not that good--overpriced, overengineered bohemian fashion statements. You will pay at LEAST a 50% premium (usually more) on something that isn't any better than a midrange PC offering.

I love how their making a big deal out of the Macbook Air's "30 hour standby battery life." Yeah, but it's only got a 6 hour life when being used. Meanwhile, a half decent CULV-based PC will last for 11-12 hours of standard use on a single charge.

Na, Taskiss. I've used a Mac. I've seen people switch to Mac and sing its praises, only to go back to PCs two years later because of the limitations of the OS* that make any techie cringe and the massive cost premium of the hardware. Are you aware of the extent of this cost premium? The best hardware you could get in a macbook wasn't half as fast as what I got in my ASUS when it came out -- older CPU (Core 2 vs. i7 -- at the time, Apple didn't offer an i7), half the RAM (4GB vs. 8GB), half the hard drive space (500GB vs. 1TB), and ridiculously weak GPU (a midrange Radeon 4xxx series vs. a top of the line Radeon 5870). Yet the Apple cost $2999, compared to the $1699 I paid for mine, which runs faster, cooler, quieter, more stable, and most importantly, came with Windows included in the cost.

Steve Jobs and his company are hacks.


* - How to make OSX: Take any *nix operating system. Remove all customizability and versatility, cripple its security, and also remove the ability to use any standard *nix software in favor of a proprietary setup. Ensure it only runs on hardware that is highly overpriced. Layer it with a dated looking UI. There's a good reason why Apple gained marketshare (they approached 10%) during the long delay after Windows XP came out (and the debacle that was Windows Vista.) However, just as XP was superior to its contemporary Mac OS9, Windows 7 is superior to OSX in just about every way, and it shows in the marketshare Microsoft is reclaiming.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Dead laptop
I'm not a superfan and most of what you say is true. If you're working exclusively with professional grade digital media macs tend to have better software options. Whereas if you want to do those things on a pc your options are shell out thousands of dollars on abobe software or suffer though on a lesser piece of software.

For office work yes macs aren't worth the price.
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Win 7 is a vast improvement over XP and Vista.
Author:  Aethien [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Win 7 is a vast improvement over XP and Vista.

Just out of curiosity, why do you say that? I put Win 7 on my laptop at work, and I honestly don't see much of an improvement over XP. I pretty much skipped over Vista, although I have it on a couple of machines at home. Is it just the better driver support, etc.?

Of course, I'm a curmudgeony Luddite, but that's another story.
Author:  Talya [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Computers are also disposable. If you buy high end, they're obsolete within 3-4 years. If you buy mid-range, they're obsolete within 2. Now, all the internal parts are the same anyway, and despite apple's lousy cooling, they mostly all have similar reliability, but even with that said, it doesn't matter. What they do in 3-4 years doesn't matter, since you'll have replaced them by then. Just how expensive do you want the cycle to be?
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Aethien wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why do you say that? I put Win 7 on my laptop at work, and I honestly don't see much of an improvement over XP. I pretty much skipped over Vista, although I have it on a couple of machines at home. Is it just the better driver support, etc.?

Of course, I'm a curmudgeony Luddite, but that's another story.
Vista fixed the poor WEP compatibility that XP had, not that it's a big selling point now considering WEP is old and mostly useless. Win7 is the first Windows operating system where I've actually used the new UI rather than rolling back to Windows Classic (Win98 UI). The UI is actually functional and usable, rather than a useless piece of **** thrown on in order to look slick and modern.

I had Vista on my previous laptop, and there were a lot of things about it that I actually liked now that I go back and use XP on my desktop. Mostly little things, like the way each OS handled file conflicts moving stuff around. Vista did actually offer a number of improvements over XP on the user end. The problem was that Vista is a resource hog. Win7 tightened resource management, while keeping the improvements.
Author:  Taskiss [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Talya wrote:
Computers are also disposable. If you buy high end, they're obsolete within 3-4 years. If you buy mid-range, they're obsolete within 2. Now, all the internal parts are the same anyway, and despite apple's lousy cooling, they mostly all have similar reliability, but even with that said, it doesn't matter. What they do in 3-4 years doesn't matter, since you'll have replaced them by then. Just how expensive do you want the cycle to be?

I have a 2007 17" MacBook Pro, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 8600M GT ...

Why exactly do I have to replace it?

As far as Windows 7, I've never used it. Does it still have the registry? Can you copy the icon of an app to an external drive, then execute it from the external drive? Is there anything like Time Machine... the backup app that comes bundled with OS X?
Author:  Talya [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Taskiss wrote:
I have a 2007 17" MacBook Pro, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 8600M GT ...

Why exactly do I have to replace it?


That would have cost you $3000 easily when it came out. It's got a bit of life left in it. The RAM is adequate. Video chip sucks, but it will still play older games. CPU is a bit rough -- my $500 netbook can almost pace that one. Give it a year.

Thing is, I could have bought a PC laptop in 2007 with those specs or better for half the price, and it would still be running ust as well as yours. Almost all PCs today physically outlast their shelf life. Obsolescence kills 95% of computers out there, and most 10 year old machines will still boot up, if anyone can find a use for them.
Author:  Micheal [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dead laptop
Amusingly, these are the same arguments I hear from my real life friends.

Mac lovers can't be dissuaded from their chosen platform by the PC lovers arguments, and vice versa.

Talya. your machine's little cousin is definitely a hot machine. I have a policy of paying cash for my machines (ok, use the credit card then go to my bank and pay it off immediately) and $1000 is what I could afford without grabbing from long term savings, if I had the extra cash or the willingness to wait another month I wouldhave gone with yours. Hopefully I don't regret my lack of patience. I went with Mus's suggestion, will open it up and play with it tomorrow, very tired tonight.

Amusingly, everyone at the store who was talking (not just the clerks) liked the Samsung brand.
Author:  Talya [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, that samsung has Optimus, which is a neat feature (i've got it in my new ASUS EEE 1215n netbook.) The GPU is midrange, but it should outperform my tiny one, even if it can't keep up to her big brother i use for gaming.
Author:  SuiNeko [ Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Talya wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
You do know that you can boot Windows on a Mac don't you?


Then you're not only paying the 50% premium to get the same hardware you'll get in a good PC, but you're also paying for OSX and not using it (since you have to buy windows separately.)

I'm a big fan of ASUS laptops, Micheal. Best quality and "bang or the buck." Since you need a bit of portability, this miniature version of my G73JH -- the G53JH -- is worth considering. at $1500, it's more than you want to spend, but you won't get better bang for your buck in a gaming laptop.

I have the 17.3" version. WHile it's big, it's pretty light. This one is only 15.6", so might be more appropriate to your portability requirement.

http://www.excaliberpc.com/598447/asus- ... ebook.html


I'm surprised the 50% markup thing is still true. My understanding was that for comparable specs and build quality apple was still pretty competitive, but that it competes in a very small section of the market - high end hardware (with the lamentable exception of the GPUs, important note for gamers), and high end build. There are cheaper solutions, even for similar specs, but not with the same build, or for the same build, but not for the same specs. I havent kept a close eye on it though, so I may be poorly informed on this these days.

As for OSX making techies cringe, we're just getting into ranty ranty I dont understandy land - I work with guys building leading edge trading platforms, end user interfaces, and everything in between. Guess what? Unix based platforms and OSX pretty popular.

Now, if what you mean is... you dont like it, and dont understand why anyone would disagree - that's fine, but not the absolute 'its terrible and the fact huge numbers of people disagree with me makes them non technical fashionistas unable to discern what they're paying for' statement you're making. It's just... deluded. I'm somewhat bewildered by it.

In terms of real world use cases, Mike, heres my experience:
OSX is, for me, a better platform because my background is Unix, and I know how to build BSD layer software, use perl, etc, so its very much more customisable for my skillset 'under the hood' than windows

It provides very usable implementations of my common 'consumer' apps - Instant messenger, IRC, web browsers, etc - idle time.
Office 2008 on it is good, but I miss the ribbon.
Parallels lets me spin up XP any time I hit a windows only bit of corporate gack on the intranet.

While it will play games, Steve Jobs is not a gamer, and the apple video cards are /always/ gimp compared to the windows ones - my MBP which is now ... 4? 5? years old, is still going strong, but shipped with an ATI 1600. The latest MBP ships with a GT330M

I find the OSX platform generally has a rich high quality 'indie dev' scene where you can pick up cheap, good apps for prosumer fiddling like Acorn and Pixelmator if you're averse to warezing things like photoshop.

The OSX interface semantics are FAR better than XP once you're used to them. There is also generally good integration between OSX apps via systemwide services - the address book, keychain, growl messaging, etc, make for good cooperation between apps.- I havent used Win7 at all though, as our company hasnt yet rolled out, and I really never use windows at home any more, so this gap may have been closed.

I treat my hardware bad, and I have been very impressed by the reliability of the build apple have supplied, and their aftermarket service has been amazing - even out of warranty things have been swapped out, no questions asked, and the time I had an actual problem with the laptop they sent a courier to pick it up, fixed it, and returned it next day.

As Talya says though, Asus have extraordinarily high build quality in their higher end systems, and all of them have good quality control. Its worth understanding though, that the physical build (casing, etc) on a 'cheap' asus wont be up to an 'expensive' mac or asus. It really may be worth going to a store and 'touching the metal' as it were to get a feel yourself.

You'll get max bigots, no doubt. You'll get the macaphobes too. I genuinely dont believe there is a movement of silver spoon idiots making up the bulk of the mac buying public though - you might want to borrow a mac for a bit to see if you care about the differences.

Final point; if you do go Wintel rather than apple, but aren't entirely certain, you might want to check the 'hackintosh' compatibility lists before you buy. While its more of a pain to get OSX running on Windows than it is to get Windows running on apple hardware, it is relatively straightforward, so you're not locking yourself into a platform forever. I very seriously considered a windows system for the better GPU & hackintosh for my last desktop.

Everyone I know who has gone mac is delighted, but they tend to be 'productivity' rather than 'gamer' users.
Author:  darksiege [ Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
I do not get it... I do not understand the whole MAC vs. PC thing. They both have their places. Each one serves its user base in the capacity that makes each one happy.
Author:  Talya [ Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, Suineko, just as a comparison, i tried to build my 8 month old G73 specs on apple's website now.

$3150 will get you a slightly faster processor (not by much, they're both i7 quad cores), the same amount of RAM. But it' still half the hard drive space and the GPU (an Nvidia 330) is two generations behind. Mac has MUCH better battery life, the ASUS isn't designed to be running on batteries for long.

Comparable? Perhaps the specsmight be getting closer. But we're still looking at $1499 (current price for my laptop) vs. $3150. And the selling point on my ASUS -- still the most powerful single GPU available in a mobile solution -- is, as you put it, completely absent from the Mac specs.

And you really have to try Windows 7. The start bar is FAR better than the dock thingie.

The big irony is you wish you could get Office 2010 on your Mac for the ribbon interface. I wish there was a way to convert office 2010 back to the 2003 interface so I know where everything is again. I don't use Office apps enough to learn them with any particular speed. :p
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