The Glade 4.0

It's easy though.

I make more per hour working for "the man" than I have when I owned my own business...mostly 'cause I can limit my hours to just 40 a week instead of 80+ a week.

I start a business only when I have to, and I've only had to three times in my life (so far).

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In time, this too shall pass.

Yeah, it is easy. It's why I have one...I hate it. It's boring....easy...and tedious...my mind wanders because there's nothing interesting to focus on. Hunter vs Farmer. Not much effort required....but to me...that's what makes it hard...I can't stand working a 9 to 5 and taking the easy way out. Lol. I don't wanna waste my time and money studying for some stupid degree and end up working for someone else just for an extra digit on my paychecks, either. I dunno, I just wish more people would have the drive to be successful...the "American dream" so to speak...so I kinda see where rizla is coming from with this thread. Yeah, though...a traditional business? Especially brick and mortar? That's also way too much work. I think the Internet is awesome, too...and with the right promotion and ideas you could really make something of yourself...or at least make enough cash to where you can quit your job. Hopefully

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Ron Paul 2012

Lack of creativity, or lack of creativeness in people, is not the problem. The are plenty of creative people out there doing creative things.

The problem is, as Taamar mentioned, it's nearly impossible to convert most traditional creative endeavors into enough money to pay the bills.

I could *probably* struggle though making a little money selling custom built acoustic guitars. I choose not to try. Mainly because, as I mentioned earlier, its more of a hobby/therapy than a way of life. I don't want to lose the pleasure in doing it. Right now, if I feel like working on a guitar, I do. If I don't, I don't. Once it becomes my primary source of income, it will cease to be fun, and become a tedious, boring job.

I don't ever want to get up in the morning and tell myself that I have to go the shop and finish a guitar and get it sold, so I can make the rent.

That would suck.

I see struggling luthiers who go through this all the time. A few even try to support a family doing it. Few ever succeed, and most of them will tell you that it's no longer an enjoyable thing for them.

I hear ya, Riz. I hear ya.

At one point, Germany had over 150 state-funded professional theaters. In a country that small, that's a lot of damn creativity. Many other countries fund and support the arts. Our culture sees the arts as some sort of luxury instead of as an essential piece of our national heritage and identity. Maybe that's why we're plagued with more Brittany Spears than Tennesee Williams-es.

Ugly people can't make music any more. Or rather, its extremly difficult for them to make it in music. Now days, you can sing for **** and push out crappy lyrics, and so long as your producer has his hand on the tone-corrector and people want to **** you, you're good to go.

/quixotic and cliche tortured artist whine

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Montegue, what you said is more damning of our culture than bemoaning our lack of it.

We're not lacking for "national heritage and identity." Our national heritage is just fake sex objects. Just because you don't like it don't mean it ain't there.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Our culture is Green and Green. It's Buckminster Fuller, and Frank Lloyd Wright.

Robert Mapplethorpe, Norman Rockwell and Andy Warhol

Joyce Kilmer, Longfellow, and Walt Whitman

Edgar Allan Poe

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Not knowing what makes up American culture doesn't mean there isn't any.

What folks will look back on as culture in the 2000's is shaky... whoever the heck Lady Gaga is, I hope she's the flash in the pan I expect she is and not something that endures. Then too, we won't know who the artists are that will endure 'cause only time will tell.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Oh, we have a rich National Heritage and Identity; and it runs much deeper than the superficial nature of the arts.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

The Arts are superficial?

I expected to get a poor reception to my position, but that's just silly. Pet rocks are superficial. Boy bands are superficial. Reality TV is superficial.

They are commercially viable, but superficial. The arts have always been an essential part of our culture, and at times we have done well by them. However, the scorn the arts usually gets is often enough to squelch them.

Plenty of research shows, for example, that arts education increases achievement in math, science, and reading/writing. However, when the time for budget cuts comes in, what do we kill off first? The Music program or the Football squad? The music program probably does more when it comes to overall education, but the football squad makes money.

Don't get me wrong - I think Athletics are important, even essential. But I often lament how quick we are to toss aside the arts.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I don't "get" most art and find it silly but I agree with your statements Monte. Just because it makes no sense to me doesn't mean there isn't intrinsic value in it.

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I don't disagree, really, Rynar.

And Monte -- I'm not saying the Arts are superficial. I'm saying that lamenting that our society doesn't value YOUR taste in arts doesn't justify public sector patronage of what you think "should be" supported instead. Boy bands and reality TV are what our millennial American society demands. I think that's as regrettable as you, I'm sure, because I agree that they're vapid and shallow. But that doesn't mean we should publically endow a bunch of crap that our society has already rejected and doesn't appreciate.

I welcome you to gather support for private endowment of things you consider to have more depth and enduring worth, though. And depending on the kinds of things your organization intends to support, feel free to contact me for contributions. Private contributions.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

It has nothing really to do with my taste. While good art is largely subjective, there are some things that just don't qualify. Then again, that's not really what I was getting at.

More so, I think we tend to look down our noses at creativity and artistic work as fluff or unessential. And really, it's hugely important to any society. Everything from theater to film and newer media. It's art that records our history, art that gives us our buildings, art that drives our literature and art that forces us to truly think critically. Assuming we do it right.

It's not so much about what I like. I appreciate art even if I don't like it. But not everything done with a pencil is art. And not every song on the radio is art.

What is art?? /emo pose

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I think althletics are superficial as well, Monte, and aside from baseball have very little to do with our national heritage and identity. I love attending the theater or the symphony orchestra much in the same way I enjoy going to a Patriots game, but if either were to be wiped away, I wouldn't be bothered by it in any meaningful way. As to your claims of the music program doing more for over-all education than the football team? That's just silly. All that money the football team brings in is spent on enriching the college or university, and on the education of people who have never even watched a football game. The music depatment just consumes funds. If it weren't for the football team, the music depatments of most schools likely wouldn't even have a budget.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I don't see athletics as very superficial. They teach a great deal about overcoming adversity, sticking with something difficult, how to act properly in stressful situations, work ethic, and of course, physical fitness, all far more broadly applicable than arts education. Arts education is fine when there's money, but it should be the first thing to go when funding is tight. Art is something that's better taught by private lessons anyhow since they can be directed towards an individual childs' interests and talents.

As for what is and isn't art in public, or what is shallow and vapid, yeah there's a lot of trash out there like boy bands, and a lot of "Art" that's no more than someone wanting to be shocking. However, it isn't all in what has mass market appeal. When I was a teenager we got dragged to the Philly art museum twice. Stuff I saw there that is not art, in my book -

A snow shovel broken in half
A circle of nondescript grey rocks
A picture that was one large line of red paint and one of blue paint
Another of the same with a yellow line added

None took so much as one iota of talent or effort to create, and the museum employees where unable to explain why they were art except in terms of what was supposely was going on in the artists' heads. I know what was going through their heads: "Woohoo, 75 grand for breaking a $10 snow shovel! What a racket!"

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Sorry Ry-ry. I have to agree with Monte here. Athletics and Art are very important

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Ron Paul 2012

Life itself teaches you these lessons. That said, sports does teach team-work which is essential now (group-projects in class just teach you how to ride coat-tails), whereas I would view the arts as teaching more creativity which lends itself to problem-solving.

In other words they both bring something unique to the table.

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Exactly.

Athletics don't necessarily have to be team based, though, they can teach knowledge of your own abilities / mind, and the arts can also inspire others to create useful things and think of better ideas.

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Ron Paul 2012