The Glade 4.0

Please tell me that someone here can relate and knows a good online support group, self-help book, or way to dispose of them without getting caught??
Seriously, is there some sort of "verbal judo" or other tactics that I'm not aware of? Or a good way to be an effective step-parent without talking to them at all?
Advice from people who have been there would be great.

Thanks.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Anything involving social dynamics is most effectively learned through experience. It's like reading about how to survive in the wilderness versus actually doing it... you can spend a month reading about it but it will still be very difficult the first time. A self-help book or advice might give you some good guidelines, but most of the burden is on you unfortunately.

(edited to clarify)

Lex, what part of "Advice from people who have been there would be great" did you not understand?
Pointing out that things are best learned from experience? Wow, genius Lex, especially considering I was asking for advice BASED ON THE EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Fortunately for me, this is not one of my areas of experience.

From watching others go through this, take a good look at Nitefox's copy of the the custody agreement and make sure everything you propose is within the limitations of that agreement. Push it to the limit when you need to, but temper it with the WWJD concept.

Remember that she is their mother and has main custody and that as the new woman in the Nitefox's life everything you do will always be suspect, even saying God Bless You. One woman I worked with got her revenge by just being nice to the husband's ex. No plots, no plans, just accepting her as a partner in raising the children. The ex nearly went bananas trying to figure out what she was trying to do.

As a side note, every time I hear Highway 20 Ride I think of you folks.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yeah, I've been nice and sweet to her for much longer than the 9 months that NF and I have been married.
She takes advantage of everything, especially kindness.
This is a woman who used her dead baby as an excuse to get football tickets (then laughed about it), was tickled to death that she, in her own words "made a profit" from her dead baby (who still does not have a headstone because she "can't afford it), she spent her pregnancy complaining that every time the baby moved in her belly she hated it and made appointments for abortions and hoped it would die when she drank and then as soon as she miscarried she was all about "oh my dead baby!" and accepted tons of money but refused to go to counseling or join any support groups or participate in any events for the prevention of this in other people's babies despite numerous invitations, the same woman who has quit going to church because people have stopped giving her money even though her daughter BEGS her to go to church, the woman who disregards the joint custody order and keeps them on Friday nite without asking us and picks up the teenager a half a day early because he doesn't want to go to church (so he talks to mom on the phone and she comes and rescues him without consulting the father), the same woman that drank alcohol in front of her daughter while pregnant until her daughter cried and said stop mom you'll kill the baby!, the woman whose old outdated microwave broke so a lady from her Sunday school class bought her a new one with her savings and a week later when that lady's microwave broke, she gave her her old microwave that "miraculously" started working again and kept the new one for herself, the woman that tells the kids that their lives will be better as soon as she graduates in December and they all move out of state, the woman that yells at my husband for not making their daughter a lunch for school when she doesn't make lunches for her daughter herself, The woman that plays mind games with her children to get them to admit on the phone that they want her or want to come home/wherever with her and then continues with her other plans without them because she just wanted to hear how much they needed her, the woman that tolerates her son yelling at me and then rewards him for that kind of behavior, the woman that gave me all her daughters old clothes she had bagged up to drop off at the salvation army then when she found out I was giving them to friends she marched over (in front of my friends) and demanded to know if there was anything in there that she gave me that she could sell for money, the woman that calls me at the last minute demanding that I give her something back immediately that I borrowed 6 months ago and why on earth can't I climb up into the attic and find it RIGHT NOW??, the woman that goes around begging other men to be a father to her son (seriously! she did this when she used to go to church) instead of calling the boy's father who is DYING to spend more time with his own son, the woman who constantly says hateful things and tries to turn her kids against their father...the woman that is selfish, hateful, spiteful, and cares about no one but herself and what she can get from other people.....I could go on and on and on and on.

I have been BEYOND NICE to this person and she continues to just **** all over us. I have done everything from be with her in the hospital and help take pictures of her deceased son to being a person she could confide in when no one else wanted to talk to her and giving her the benefit of the doubt and standing up for her.

I can't do it anymore. But now that I am no longer speaking to her, it seems like things are worse as far as getting the kids and dropping them off. She doesn't even call or text us she has the kids do it and when miscommunications occur she still does not step up and talk to us. We got less than half of our time this week because SHE DECIDED to keep them with her.

According to the legal document, we have the kids Wednesday through Sunday every other week.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Its the only way to be sure.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Kate, sounds to me like you're just a big enabler. Someone needs to step up and put this ***** in her place. You're too nice when she doesn't deserve it, and you don't call her out on her bullshit. She can't just keep the kids because she feels like it, call the damn cops.

Yes, I am. A big fat enabler, hahaha! Its true. I'm working on it though....
The prob is no one wants to rock the boat, and when I do rock the boat in these cases everyone gets mad at me (the children, their mother, and their father) for several hours to several days until the change settles in and people realize it was a good thing.
I've even talked to my therapist about it and thats just the way it seems to be most of the time. Mom is selfish and cares mostly about her own wellbeing and Dad is so afraid of losing his kids and/or causing them emotional harm that most of the time he tries to just coast on by and not rock the boat....which I can see because there have been 2 instances this month where he tried to enforce his rules and his son was "rescued" by his mother. (As in, if Dad tries to enforce rules or anything other parent-like, his kids choose not to come to his house and their mother is only to happy to come and get them...)
So its pretty much suck it up or get out of the situation from what I can see and I don't like either of those options, hence the asking for help/advice bit.

As far as calling the police, how would that work? If she doesn't bring them over or let us pick them up on our designated days we call the police and they bring the kids to us? Take her to jail? Write her a citation? I'm all for it, but my husband probably will not be. I am pretty sure that he would rather us be inconvenienced and angry than for the kids to be upset or scared in any way which is bound to happen if we call the cops on their mother.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Until this changes, she's going to be a pain-in-the-ass.

Unfortunately this is a lesser-of-two-evils situation. Someone's going to end up angry.

Yes. You've discovered my dilemma.

Also, the kids mother has decided to move out of state when she graduates in December. NF and I went to see a lawyer and were told basically that because of the wording of the divorce decree that we don't have much of a case as far as trying to prevent her from taking the kids when she moves....she has the upper hand. Our only hope is that between now and then we can prove somehow that she is an unfit mother (almost impossible to do in our state), that she decides not to go (not likely), or that they move down there and the kids do poorly in school and exhibit tangible signs of emotional suffering which would give us legal grounds to take her to court for custody of the kids.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

My situation is a bit of a mess, but at least the kids are mine. My X has physical custody of our kids, though she never really has them. I could easily take physical custody away from her if I wanted, and she knows it, so we don't really have any issues. She's just not really all that interested in being a mother, and I'm more than happy to take over and take care of them.

Dealing with her is quite aggravating at times, due to her apathy in the whole situation. I can do basically whatever I want with the kids and there aren't really any problems.

I do wonder what will happen if/when I find someone and they enter the picture. I do know my X won't like it. She obviously still harbors feelings for me, and I have no doubt that if I told her to come back she would. Not that that would ever happen. I haven't put a ton of thought into it, but my current feeling is that if/when I get married again I'll probably go for full custody of the kids if things haven't improved from her end, just so I don't have to worry about the whole situation with her being an absentee mother and whatever other problems may come about from the new step-mother. I do know it also bothers her like crazy that I don't care that she is living with some guy.

The X-mother-in-law is really the one that takes care of them when they're supposed to be with their mother, and that's not an issue as I like her far more than the X. It's actually usually me and her that make the decisions for the kids anyways.

It's hard to give advice on this subject, especially as an outsider looking in. I've learned to deal with my situation pretty well though, and it make take some time but you'll get yours figured out as well. It may not be the ideal situation in the end, but one of the big things is to not let her get under your skin. Once you let them do that they have a sort of power over you and they will use it if they can.

Kate, remember when we told you to see a different doctor...

See a different lawyer :p

Truthfully though, you have only the power that Fox allows you to have. If he's not backing you up to go along to get along, there's really *nothing* you can do. Unless you can change him, you're pretty much just along for the ride.

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Holy shitsnacks!

We saw a pretty good lawyer...she wins her cases, everyone we've talked to that has had her has had great results, and she was featured on 60 minutes. She was realistic with us on our chances which were very very slim...less than 50-50. She did say to keep an eye on the Supreme Court and the direction they are heading in family law and custody because she thinks that although we would most likely lose in regular court, we could have a good chance of winning on appeal.
As far as "power" I have none. He really has none either, or rather he chooses not to fight for it. It is more important to him to have quality, drama and stress free time with his children even if its not as much than it would be to have more time and lots of strife. (This is wonderful for the stepchildren and their mother, not so great for the rest of us!)
I have a hard time with that because I have heard, first hand from the ex, for the past year how she actively manipulates the children to disrespect their father and not spend as much time with him. The oldest has become a pro at this and knows exactly how to get what he wants from his dad...he comes over to play and have a good time and leaves whenever anything happens that he doesn't like. Basically, if we do anything that the teen doesn't want to do, he bails. So we either do stuff he wants to do, or never see him. It hurts my husband that he does this, and the son even laughs with his mom about it and makes fun of his dad. Its not the kids' fault though, his loyalty lies with his mom and unless he is badmouthing his dad then she is not happy.
Part of me wants to start enforcing things, involving the police, maybe go to court anyway and get the custody order changed to be more specific, etc and then the other part of me is like, do I really want all that drama when she may just up and leave anyway and then we wasted precious time with the kids?
Mostly though, I hate it because its a no win situation. Divorce is ugly, kids.

I was kind of hoping one of you guys would have some sort of magical answer and we could be like "aha! that would fix everything and make EVERYONE happy!" No such luck, eh?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Sorry Kate. There's no magic bullet for this.

Well, there is, but its not magic, and its not particularly legal.

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Holy shitsnacks!

I've been married three times - my very hard won experiences have taught me to not get involved in the parenting of a step child. Watch, but don't touch. It's not yours.

Especially if the parent you're married to asks you to. It's not your responsibility and you have no inherent authority. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and you'll do less damage if you just don't.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Unless you use this


Then you'd have a magic bullet =P

That's pretty sage advice. Thanks. Sad, but wise.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I think Taskiss hit the nail on the head. Yeah, it hurts you to see him hurt by this, but you can't change the ex, so don't even try. Just support Nitefox in all his dealings with her. I can see a possible problem with her interfering with Nitefox's time with the kids, but that depends on the nature of the time...if its joint custody, its between the two of them. But if its visitation, that's a potential legal case, as interfering with court-ordered visitation is something family courts Do Not Like...but it's his call whether he wants to go down that road.

If it's any help, Kate, eventually the kids will see Mom for what she is. Crappy part is that it takes time, time that you don't get back. My best friend has 2 exes...his HS sweetheart that he had his eldest daughter with, and an ex-wife that he had 2 daughters with. My friend has been the stable parent in both relationships, although it was an uphill battle as far as the eldest is concerned. But my friend grew up and became an adult, while the exes did not. HS sweetheart became a prescription drug addict after picking a wife- and child-beating winner for a husband, and my friend's daughter became mom to both her mother and half-brother with shaken baby syndrome. Eventually, the daughter gave up on her mother and now lives with my friend. Its still rough going...but she's miles better off than if she'd stayed with her mother. She's about to graduate high school now (crap, that means I'm getting old...).

The ex-wife was a piece of work--she's a psycho Forest Gump in a pygmy Pamela Anderson package with a grifter white-trash Jerry Springer family. She was abusive, nacissistic, and manipulative. She talked down about my friend to both of her daughters, and even going so far as to use the oldest as a spy, having her go through his cell phone and write down all the names and numbers of all the women's names he had stored. Protection orders were filed as she became stalkeriffic when my friend remarried. The youngest turned out not to be my friend's biological daughter. My friend wound up hiring a limo service to drop off his kids to her so she would not have an opportunity to yell at him about the protection orders. The oldest went into therapy--and now she's almost old enough to petition to court to go live with her father, and apparently she's going to do so.

It sucks, Kate...but eventually they will see the truth.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

Thank you, Colphax. Everyone in our family tells us the same thing...suck it up, do the right thing by the kids, and one day they will understand.
I really hope they do. Their daddy bites his tongue and makes so many sacrifices, including humbling himself and being belittled, just to keep the peace for his children's sake. He goes through a lot in order to spare them emotional trauma. He really balances things out and I love him for it...he very rarely puts himself first and I hope that his kids realize it while he is still around to appreciate it.
*sigh* Well, thanks for letting me rant.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Have you offered to take the kids full time and let her off the hook for child support?

Really, have Khross send Doombots, or have him assign her as a project for one of his creative writing classes.

Go to Columbus Mississippi, find the crazy lady, no, not the redhead, the other one, and interview her. Find out what makes her tick, do general inept college student analysis on her right to her face.

At least 10,000 words, including a summation of legal charges that should be filed against her.

Really, it would be fun.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yes, we have offered. She will not do it, unfortunately. I've half got her convinced to leave the kids with us in December to let them finish out the school year while she moves out of state and gets used to her new job and living arrangements but we'll see.
Being the primary custodian is something that she is not willing to give up. Being the custodial parent provides her with security on an emotional and financial level that I just do not believe she could cope without.
And honestly, as a mother, I don't fault her for that one.
I do hope that she comes to her senses and starts putting her children before herself though. We'll see.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Disclaimer: I have only nominal experience in these affairs, from close friends and an ex-girlfriend dealing with such issues.

Have your day in court. Call anyone and everyone you can call to bear witness to all of the things you've said she's done. If you have witness (physical or electronic) of her attitude toward her lost child, call them and let her know you're going to have them all heard in open court. Maybe she'll negotiate vs. having all that come out. Appear in court, looking like good parents with a good sense of time and place. Get it on the record you're concerned she'll disappear. Pray for the situation. Pray for the judges. Pray God will change her heart.

If things go wrong, appeal. See if you can get a temporary injunction while the appeal is working out. If she leaves the state with them, make sure she follows every dot and tittle of the agreement. Make sure you get your calls, support, whatever it is you are supposed to have. If at all possible get fox down here and insist upon his weekends whenever you can spare to do so.

When she makes a mistake (when, not if) file appropriately.

In Summation, since she's mommy all the good-will is going to be on her side. You need to build a body of evidence to break through that wall.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Pray for her

(I Pray for You)

I havent been to church since I don’t remember when
Things were goin’ great ‘til they fell apart again
So I listened to the preacher as he told me what to do
He said you can’t go hatin’ others who have done wrong to you
Sometimes we get angry, but we must not condemn
Let the good Lord do His job and you just pray for them

I pray your brakes go out runnin’ down a hill
I pray a flowerpot falls from a window sill and knocks you in the head like I’d like to
I pray your birthday comes and nobody calls
I pray you’re flyin’ high when your engine stalls
I pray all your dreams never come true
Just know whereever you are honey, I pray for you

I’m really glad I found my way to church
‘Cause I’m already feelin’ better and I thank God for the words
Yeah I’m goin’ take the high road
And do what the preacher told me to do
You keep messin’ up and I’ll keep prayin’ for you

I pray your tire blows out at 110
I pray you pass out drunk with your best friend and wake up with his and her tattoos

I pray your brakes go out runnin’ down a hill
I pray a flowerpot falls from a window sill and knocks you in the head like I’d like to
I pray your birthday comes and nobody calls
I pray you’re flyin’ high when your engine stalls
I pray all your dreams never come true
Just know where ever you are, near or far, in your house or in your car,
wherever you are honey, I pray for you.
I pray for you

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I don't have the problem of a stepparent with my older daughter since I adopted her, and the biological donor had forfieted all parental rights long before that, but I have seen the whole step-parent-parent-child-ex-spouse drama played out too many times.

The biggest mistake people make in this situation is forgetting that the stepparent is an adult in their own home, and the child is a child, and may or may not be in their own home.

The stepparent absolutely must be involved in parenting at least to some extent, simply because you can't have children being allowed to defy an adult in their own home - period. Once they figure out that they can do this, kids will go out of their way to do it, and that is just as bad or worse for the relationship as the drama involved in an ex not wanting step involvement. It can lead to kids getting into dangerous situations and nothing being done. In really bad cases it can lead to emotional or even physical abuse of the stepparent when the kids get older as everyone becomes accustomed to the stepparent being passive.

That doesn't mean you have to be a substitute mom or dad, but it does mean that the stepparent does have to realize that they simply don't get to veto what goes on in your house. Period. It is not up to them if you will be involved in parenting when the kids visit or are living there. If you have rules, especially if you have your own kids, those are the rules. You really can't have one set of rules for one set of kids and another for the other.

Where you have to watch out is in frivolous accusations that they might make as a weapon against you or your ex, but those can happen anyhow. You also have to watch out as the kids get to be older children and pre-teens and figure out that they can play the three adults against each other, or even make false accusations if they get really resentful, and because they're kids they don't think about the long term consequences and may not even care because they don't fully grasp them. However, it is important to understand the law where you live, and generally the law does not specify that only a legal guardian can discipline a child. The law in Ohio, according to a strict reading, allows a stepparent or schoolteacher to (for example) spank a child regardless of the wishes of a parent, although in practice school spankings are passe.

The biggest thing people forget in all this is that the kids are actors and parties as they get older, and their thoughts and feelings begin affecting the situation. My most complicated case ever involved a little 11-year-old redheaded kid with the goofiest grin and the most manipulative personality you could fit into 80 pounds. This girl had her father believing her stepfather had kicked her down a flight of stairs because of one tiny bruise on her forearm. It was patently obvious just from the way she smiled the whole time she told her tale of woe that she was getting back at mom and stepdad for something, and that she knew I knew she was lying! She grasped perfectly well that no child her age would be charged with making a false police report. Of course, the holes in her story ended up in the criminal matter getting laughed out of court, but I have no idea how long the endless custody dispute dragged on, in part because the child was exacerbating it.

You've got to have order in your house. Responsible parents and stepparents will have it well understood that basic discipline and safety will be enforced at all times. If the ex or step is too irresponsible for this, then the other two adults need to make it work as best they can, but the children simply cannot be allowed to just defy adults. Sooner or later they will end up in the hospital, or something.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

First, what you're talking about isn't parenting, it's equivalent to any relationship the child has to an adult who isn't their parent. There are boundaries, etc, that an adult must hold firm when dealing with any kid. That's not anywhere near parenting.

I saw my step-daughter dealing pot once, just once, but I knew what it was and told my wife, her mother. Darling daughter, golden child extraordinaire, couldn't have possibly been doing that.

Now, had the kid been one I was parenting I'd have had to deal with it. As much as I love my step-daughter I could just let it go.

6 months later, kid turns 18 and self-implodes, doesn't really do anything bad but gets things riled up enough so that three years later there are still hard feeling going 'round, but the fact that I'd seen a drug deal go down was proven when the daughters room was cleared out and a bag of pot found.

Now, I'd have had to tell any neighborhood parent if I saw their kid deal dope, just to let them know even if they don't want to do anything about it. Farther than that I don't go.

Second and bottom line, just ask yourself what part of parenting you would like someone else doing for your kid and realize others may feel even more protective than you.

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In time, this too shall pass.