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Utilities Monopolies
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10191		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DFK! [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Utilities Monopolies
We hatessss them preciousss. We hatesss them.

Gah, m'fers! Exploitative, inconvenient, expensive, inefficient.

That is all.
Author:  Hopwin [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Also the **** killed my tree with retarded trimming and they won't come and take it down now that 30 foot long 100+ sections fall out of it every other weekend.
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
And that's not even touching phones or cable.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
So, how would you handle the infrastructure for a free market utilities City? County? State?

As little regard as I have for ours, I still haven't worked out how to make the infrastructure work to open that market.
Author:  DFK! [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Micheal wrote:
So, how would you handle the infrastructure for a free market utilities City? County? State?

As little regard as I have for ours, I still haven't worked out how to make the infrastructure work to open that market.


Not sure. At a bare minimum, the companies need to be subject to service standards to retain their exclusive contracts, should automatically come up for renewal every X years, and each renewal should be open for public bidding.

At least then it would essentially be a monopoly with term limits and service requirements. As of now they just get to behave however they want.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Texas has competition for your electrical provider. It seems like a good deal so far.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Who owns the infrastructure? The company? The municipality? The customers? The taxpayers? Will a company be dedicated to maintenance if they don't believe they will be re-upped? Who is liable for failure or accident? These are all questions I've heard before in discussions to end the power, cable, water, and sewer monopolies some areas have.

No good answers, just more questions. What if the company goes bankrupt and the fat cats walk away without repairing anything leaving the area holding the bag for basically a whole new system?

Please note, I would love to see a viable competition in all these areas. How do you get it done without screwing yourself?
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Utilities Monopolies
Well, it works here. You can sign up for your electricity from a wide variety of companies.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
We have a version of it here. Company buys the power wholesale from the same company we do. It is slightly cheaper than the main power company. The bills get paid to the new company who then call the main company whenever you need help. Main company helps their residential companies first. You, as a customer of the other company get to wait. New company says its people are out working the lines, but are way understaffed and under equipped. End result, everyone rapidly goes back to P.G. & E.
Author:  DFK! [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Micheal wrote:
Who owns the infrastructure? The company? The municipality? The customers? The taxpayers? Will a company be dedicated to maintenance if they don't believe they will be re-upped? Who is liable for failure or accident? These are all questions I've heard before in discussions to end the power, cable, water, and sewer monopolies some areas have.


Dunno. That's not my industry.

I'd think the municipality would own them on behalf of the taxpayers, maybe? Put maintenance in the service contract I mentioned. Liability? Dunno.

I just know that enforced monopolies are absurd.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not arguing that aspect. I fully agree with you on that. Once they are in place they are ridiculously difficult to get rid of. My question is how? What if the company claims ownership of various expensive parts of the system? Who pays for that? Is it right to strip their ownership rights? What about all of the legal rights of way they have acquired over the years. Do those transfer, remain theirs, or get stolen for the public good? I have participated in this argument over the years. Municipalities that do not work intelligently when setting this stuff up pay through the nose on down the line, or just figure it is too much bother to fight and the monopoly goes on.
Author:  DFK! [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
They wouldn't get stolen, they'd get taken under Eminent Domain and reappropriated. And, given that we have such rampant cronyism, they'd probably make good money.

That's part of the issue, most municipalities couldn't afford the eminent domain takings.


Edit: No, using eminent domain is not very libertarian-y of me. Neither are monopolies. Sue me. :lol:
Author:  Hopwin [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
DFK! wrote:
Micheal wrote:
Who owns the infrastructure? The company? The municipality? The customers? The taxpayers? Will a company be dedicated to maintenance if they don't believe they will be re-upped? Who is liable for failure or accident? These are all questions I've heard before in discussions to end the power, cable, water, and sewer monopolies some areas have.


Dunno. That's not my industry.

I'd think the municipality would own them on behalf of the taxpayers, maybe? Put maintenance in the service contract I mentioned. Liability? Dunno.

I just know that enforced monopolies are absurd.

Cleveland did that with electric and failed.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think here in ohio you buy generation from your provider and distribution you have to have AEP or whoever owns the lines.
Author:  Corolinth [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem is that there are two types of utilities companies. Some of them had their monopolies handed to them by the federal government. Phones, for example. Others built their infrastructure with their own money.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
DFK! wrote:
Micheal wrote:
So, how would you handle the infrastructure for a free market utilities City? County? State?

As little regard as I have for ours, I still haven't worked out how to make the infrastructure work to open that market.


Not sure. At a bare minimum, the companies need to be subject to service standards to retain their exclusive contracts, should automatically come up for renewal every X years, and each renewal should be open for public bidding.

At least then it would essentially be a monopoly with term limits and service requirements. As of now they just get to behave however they want.


Can't have term limits - you'd have to let them bid again. And you need to make sure the contract is lucrative enough to support the massive investment it takes to secure such a deal.

Tough issue, but yeah - it kind of sucks the way it is.

Currently, we have a forced monopoly for distribution (don't want parallel lines everywhere) and "free" market for supply to the grid. The distribution company is heavily regulated by the state. It's not great, but I don't really have a better solution.
Author:  RangerDave [ Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
One option to cut into the monopoly approach as the tech improves will be distributed generation (e.g. rooftop solar). Definitely going to be an increasingly widespread and cost-effective option in the coming years.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Utilities Monopolies
So I've been hearing for the last 15 years...
Author:  Hopwin [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Solar isn't an option here. If I could plant my own turbine in the Lake though, that might prove effective.
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