The Glade 4.0
https://gladerebooted.net/

Children
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1115		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rodahn [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Children
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make.

When you have a child, you:

1) Contribute to the already bloated world population (a majority of which cannot feed/cloth itself). Because almost 7 billion (and rising) people in the world just isn't enough darn it.

2) Set yourself up for emotional/financial heartache. Kids leech off their parents (even into adulthood), and most parents oblige them. Children also lash out at their parents, blaming them for their shortcomings based on how they were raised. And most parents worry constantly about their child's (or children's) well-being, causing un-needed grief. So many parents unnecessarily sacrifice their own happiness and well-being for their kids.

3) Project your fears, shortcomings, insecurities, anger onto the child. How many kids in this world are abused and exploited? How many are shunned in favor of another sibling? How many are told they are embarrassments because they are ruining their parent's image? How many are forced into growing up and adopting one of the parent's hobbies/jobs all in the name of "I want him/her to be who I couldn't?" It may sound like wanting to give a better life for your kids, but this rarely happens, and often turns into an ego-fueled power trip for the parent.

It's so sad to see so many people rush into having children right after (or before) marriage, simply because they feel society demands it of them, and that they are somehow outcasts or "different" if they do not. I can almost hear couples saying, "Well, we're married, guess we better start cranking out kids, because heaven forbid we don't keep up with the Joneses."

EDIT: Just to clarify -- I am NOT implying that those that choose to have children are inferior or dumb in anyway. I am simply voicing an opinion.
Author:  TheRiov [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
or perhaps we have a genetic imperative to propagate ourselves. Sure for the mediocre stock like some I can see forbidding them from reproducing but for individuals as genetically superior as myself, I owe it to the world to try to create more of me.
Author:  Micheal [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rodahn - The only true immortality our mortal selves have is passing on our genes. I've known more than one old person who has died content because there were plenty of descendants to keep the bloodline going.

The Book of Genesis has the line "be fruitful and multiply." There is no expiration date given.

That being said, read Marching Morons by Cyril Kornbluth and understand the real problem if the people who understand your message take your advise.
Author:  Rodahn [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh, I understand that the Human race needs reproduction for survival. But at this point, with our planet's already overly-stretched resources, procreation should really only be used in periods of major population declines (which we are definitely not experiencing at the moment).

And Christians who abide by the "be fruitful and multiply" philosophy are only adding to the problem. That section of the Bible was written during a time when the Earth's population was low, and civilizations/nations were not as bloated as they are now.

Having children is just a bad idea in the modern age.

EDIT: And I read the synopsis of The Marching Morons, and it kind of bolsters my point. Stuffing the Earth with so many people just causes problems. It doesn't matter what your IQ is -- more human beings = more drain on already stretched resources.
Author:  shuyung [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
You don't get a diaspora when the resources support the population.
Author:  Raltar [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I never want to have children, but it isn't all as bad as you make it out. Children bring people joy and purpose. Hell, I thought that my brother should have been the last person in the world to have a kid and I was worried when we found out his girlfriend was pregnant. As irresponsible as my brother may have been in the past, he's been nothing but a great father and my nephew is one of the coolest kids in the world. Oh man, having a nephew is freaking awesome. It's like having a kid, but when he starts misbehaving, I can just give him back to his parents. Bam!
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Ok, first of all, the world's population really isn't bloated at all. Most people who are starving are so because their governments prevent effective farming through a variety of policies and the same governments plus sheer logistics prevent wealthier nations from feeding them.

Second, despite your bullshit cheap shot at Christians, Muslim and other non-Christian nations are the ones doing the most population expansion. Russia has experienced a 40% increase in adherents to Islam in the last 40 years, and is the fastest growing religion there primarily due to birthrate. (See Wikipedia article "Islam in Russia") That same article predicts Russia being majority muslim by the middle of next century. France is experiencing significant immigration from muslim nations and while the french Constitution prohibits gathering data on race or religion of the populace, the immigration rate combined with the reproduction of those immigrants indicates that Islam will become a much larger section of the French population.

Furthermore, the 2 by-far-most-populous nations of the world, China and India are nowhere near being majority Christian.

As for this crap about financial heartache and how parents supposedly mistreat their children emotionally, that's a giant load of horseshit. All parents have things they expect of their children and things they encourage them to do; that's how children learn what's expected of them in society. Sure, all parents have expectations that aren't going to be realized, but there is nothing inherently pathological about those; the vast majority of the time the children turn out fine. In fact, the children we have the most trouble with these days tend to live in areas of absentee fathers and generally suffer from lack of parental expectations and nurturing.

So, next time you want to take a cheap shot and not only Christianity but the lifestyle of a great many people, you might want to exercise just a little thought to make sure you have your facts straight. Your problems with Christianity do not mean the world has a problem in Christianity. I think you'd change your tune pretty fast in the nuclear arsenals of France and Russia were controlled by muslim governments.
Author:  Rodahn [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Wow touched a nerve have I, Diamondeye?

So, you're basically saying that a majority of the hunger, housing issues, lack of medical treatment, etc is all due to government corruption? Wait no, because in the last part of your sentence, you mention the logistics of wealthier nations. Well guess what, wealthier nations can't solve these problems because they are running on limited resources, and need to take care of themselves first.

And despite your insecurity about your religion (why else would you jump down my throat if you weren't?), that was actually not a blanket attack on Christianity. I was saying that Christians who take that passage in the Bible to heart are only adding to the problem. It is entirely possible to be a Christian and disagree with some of what the Bible says.

BTW, I find it greatly amusing that you in one breath call your religion under attack, while blatantly attacking another (Islam) in the next breath :lol: So if I need to get my facts straight, then you need to see the hypocrisy in your own damn words.

As for parental projection onto their children -- I believe it was Friedrich Nietzsche who said that "the world is a will to power, and nothing besides." Every action we take, whether consciously or subconsciously, is done in the attempt to exude power over something or someone. That power is sometimes neutral and benevolent, but it is still exuded.

EDIT: Oh I just read your signature. Your last sentence pretty much tells me everything I need to know . . .
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Rodahn wrote:
Wow touched a nerve have I, Diamondeye?


Yeah, I suppose cricticizing your bullshit commentary means you've touched a nerve. Evidently I did the same. Way to make a totally irrelevant comment.

Yes, you touched a nerve. The one that makes me respond when someone posts something that amounts to "I ahve no idea what I'm talking about! I'll post my own uninformed opinion in as antagnonistic a fashion as I can manage anyhow! RARR!!"

Quote:
So, you're basically saying that a majority of the hunger, housing issues, lack of medical treatment, etc is all due to government corruption? Wait no, because in the last part of your sentence, you mention the logistics of wealthier nations. Well guess what, wealthier nations can't solve these problems because they are running on limited resources, and need to take care of themselves first.


Yes, they do need to take care of themselves first which means not committing their militaries to forcing governmental change on those countries so that it's logistically possible to get the food to people efficiently. that's the biggest problem; that many governments in poor nations are autocratic and don't want people getting better off because they see that as a threat. Look at Zimbabwe; "land reform" has essentially destroyed its agriculture, but convinces the uneducated masses that the government is on "their side".

Quote:
And despite your insecurity about your religion (why else would you jump down my throat if you weren't?), that was actually not a blanket attack on Christianity. I was saying that Christians who take that passage in the Bible to heart are only adding to the problem. It is entirely possible to be a Christian and disagree with some of what the Bible says.


No, it's really not possible to be a Christian and disagree with some of the Bible. That's just setting yourself up as God.

In any case, don't feed me this line about my insecurities. The insecurities are yours. If they weren't, you wouldn't have mentioned Christians at all, since very few Christians are really going out of their way to have large families, especially compared to the other areas I mentioned.

No, you chos to single out the relatively minor contribution Christians make to the nonexistant population problem while totallly ignoring hat of Muslims, the Chinese, India, etc. That's just picking a personal bone with Christianity and appealing to rhetorical technicalities is not fooling anyone.

Quote:
BTW, I find it greatly amusing that you in one breath call your religion under attack, while blatantly attacking another (Islam) in the next breath :lol: So if I need to get my facts straight, then you need to see the hypocrisy in your own damn words.


Don't give me this horseshit either. I didn't claimt hat Christianity is under attack nor did I attack Islam. I merely pointed out that it, along with other sources, vastly outclasses Christianity in terms of population growth. You're just fabricating bullshit I never said in order to call me a hypocrite. Like I said, get your facts straight. If you mean that pointing out the danger of Islamic majorities in nuclear-armed nations, that's no "attack" either; maybe you've missed the concern over Iranian nuclear programs on the part of a large number of nations. It's not out of hatred of Islam.

Quote:
As for parental projection onto their children -- I believe it was Friedrich Nietzsche who said that "the world is a will to power, and nothing besides." Every action we take, whether consciously or subconsciously, is done in the attempt to exude power over something or someone. That power is sometimes neutral and benevolent, but it is still exuded.


That's nice. So Nietzsche said that. So **** what? That's just an appeal to authority; just because he said it means nothing.

Quote:
EDIT: Oh I just read your signature. Your last sentence pretty much tells me everything I need to know . . .


That's nice. Obviously your attempts to fabricate claims I didn't make, quotes of arbitrary political philosophers, and purposeful oversimplification of complex problems to try to create a "gotcha" are outweighed by your disdain based on my signature. :roll:
Author:  Rodahn [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
EDIT: NM.

Look, if this is just going to go round and round with us quoting each other and arguing why the other is wrong, then let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Fair enough?
Author:  Vindicarre [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Rodahn wrote:
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make. ...


Then don't have children.
Author:  Hokanu [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Vindicarre wrote:
Rodahn wrote:
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make. ...


Then don't have children.
Author:  FarSky [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Hokanu wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Rodahn wrote:
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make. ...


Then don't have children.
Author:  Coren [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Micheal wrote:
The Book of Genesis has the line "be fruitful and multiply." There is no expiration date given.


Couple of thoughts...it seemed to me that line could be interpreted more as a blessing than a commandment. =) (Such as "Live long and prosper" hehe).

And that said, if it *is* a commandment, there is an arguable expiration date given in the same sentence.

"Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth."

You could argue that we've already "replenished the earth." ;)
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rodahn wrote:
EDIT: NM.

Look, if this is just going to go round and round with us quoting each other and arguing why the other is wrong, then let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Fair enough?


Fair enough.
Author:  Rodahn [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Vindicarre wrote:
Rodahn wrote:
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make. ...


Then don't have children.


Exactly!
Author:  Lydiaa [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
I dont care what race I marry, I'm just trying to breed a superior race ;)
Author:  Rodahn [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
Lydiaa wrote:
I dont care what race I marry, I'm just trying to breed a superior race ;)


Image
Author:  Lydiaa [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
It was a warped house quote hehe..

And I'm sure the dude in the picture quite cared what race he was gonna have kids with =P
Author:  Raell [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
All I can say is that I disagree with the OP. I love ya man but I think you are off on this one. I mean really, look at this face.

Image

You go ahead and tell her I am an idiot and she was a mistake.
Author:  Rodahn [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nah, people who have kids aren't idiots.

Like just about everything else in life, kids are a choice.

Some see them as a positive choice. I do not.
Author:  Midgen [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rodahn wrote:
Nah, people who have kids aren't idiots.

Like just about everything else in life, kids are a choice.

Some see them as a positive choice. I do not.


Except that this nonsense is directed at everyone ("when you choose"), as opposed to just yourself...

Perhaps next time you should choose your words more carefully?

Rodahn wrote:
Bringing a child into this world is perhaps one of the biggest blunders anyone can make.

When you have a child, you:

1) Contribute to the already bloated world population (a majority of which cannot feed/cloth itself). Because almost 7 billion (and rising) people in the world just isn't enough darn it.

2) Set yourself up for emotional/financial heartache. Kids leech off their parents (even into adulthood), and most parents oblige them. Children also lash out at their parents, blaming them for their shortcomings based on how they were raised. And most parents worry constantly about their child's (or children's) well-being, causing un-needed grief. So many parents unnecessarily sacrifice their own happiness and well-being for their kids.

3) Project your fears, shortcomings, insecurities, anger onto the child. How many kids in this world are abused and exploited? How many are shunned in favor of another sibling? How many are told they are embarrassments because they are ruining their parent's image? How many are forced into growing up and adopting one of the parent's hobbies/jobs all in the name of "I want him/her to be who I couldn't?" It may sound like wanting to give a better life for your kids, but this rarely happens, and often turns into an ego-fueled power trip for the parent.

It's so sad to see so many people rush into having children right after (or before) marriage, simply because they feel society demands it of them, and that they are somehow outcasts or "different" if they do not. I can almost hear couples saying, "Well, we're married, guess we better start cranking out kids, because heaven forbid we don't keep up with the Joneses."
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject: 
The best thing about this line of thinking is that those that have it don't pass their defective genetics along to the next generation nor their ideas. Thus its both a nature and nurture dead end for the ideas.

Not to mention by the same argument of "people are starving today so we don't have enough resources for everyone" we've been out of resources since humanity began.
Author:  Serienya [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Who is going to invent a warp drive so we can populate new planets if we don't breed new scientists? ;)

(I just bought my 5 1/2 year old her first microscope. That's my girl!!)
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children
You just volunteered. Get to work. :mrgreen: 8-)
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/