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An expensive lesson in maintenance
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Author:  Aethien [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  An expensive lesson in maintenance
Oof. Getting up to speed on the freeway last night on my way to see Clayton Kershaw win his 20th, our minivan revved up to 5000 RPM and stuck there for a few seconds. Drove to the game, and on the way home (and my wife, this morning) noticed that there was a loud knocking in the engine. There's always been a rattle, but this was a bit different.

So, took it into the shop - a new place, wasn't quite happy with the work another place had done on my Subaru - and the minute I turned on the engine for the guy, he got a sour look on his face and said that it sounded like a problem with the rods. Sure enough, just got a call a few minutes ago - they want to keep it over night while they try to figure out if it's better to replace the engine (with a "low-mileage" unit) or to rebuild whatever it is that can be rebuilt. Either way, this ain't looking cheap, probably a couple of thousand to fix. Looks like a low-mileage engine will run somewhere over $1500 (for a Chrysler 3.8l).

So annoying, since my wife and I had talked about me keeping the car at home this week to get some maintenance or at least an oil change done. Guess I should have done that last week. Or earlier, of course.

I hate cars. Such a pain.
Author:  Jasmy [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
Ouch! Sorry Aethien...been there done that before...it's not fun or cheap. :(
Author:  Sam [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
Chances are this would happen sooner or later. Unless you ran it completely out of oil and fubar'd the engine, this was a problem building. That "knocking" you heard previously was likely an indicator.

New engine or rebuilt, make sure you maintain it from now on. Change the oil every 7500 (if lots of stop-and-go) and 10000 if purely highway miles is the usual rule of thumb with newer oils. Change the filter always if you are DIY'ing it. Some people just drain the oil and don't change the filter, which is a huge no-no. Some people even don't change the oil, just add more. If you are adding oil between changes, you have a problem that needs to be fixed. You should never have to add oil between changes, unless you somehow missed the measurement when filling it.

Check the levels once a week as a rule of thumb, also. It takes little effort. Pull the dipstick, clean off with a clean rag, replace and pull again and look where the oil hits. Always look under your car when you can remember it also, to check for leaks (especially at home, where you know no one else is parking with a leak). Even when having someone else do the maintaining for you, there can always be a leak from bad seating or a damaged part.

Make sure you get a warranty of some kind on the rebuild or new replacement. I'd also offer that you would do well (if you like the shop doing the replacement engine work) to take the vehicle there for regular maintaining. Maintaining a vehicle takes money, but it saves a lot more in the long run.

As the commercial guy says, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later.".

Best of luck.
Author:  Taskiss [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:51 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd change the oil and filter in an older Chrysler minivan engine every 3000 miles, if you're using conventional oil.

It's like $20 to have the dealer do it for you around here. 3, 4 times a year and you're good.
Author:  Müs [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:07 am ]
Post subject: 
3k miles is ridiculous. 5-7 is more rational.
Author:  Sam [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Müs wrote:
3k miles is ridiculous. 5-7 is more rational.


Many years ago (as far back as the 80's) 3k miles was the normal for good maintenance if you drove a lot of stop-and-go. 5k was acceptable for highway miles. Different oils and different engines back then.

My pop owned and ran car parts places when I was growing up, and I was a bit of a grease monkey as a kid :mrgreen:
Author:  Shelgeyr [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
You're not the only one, Aethien. I got off easier than you did, though. Just replaced the fuel pump only to spring a leak in one of the heater hoses a week later, leaving me stranded about a hundred miles from home. $600 for the fuel pump, $130 for the heater hoses, and an assurance from the shop that there's more to come b/c it happens to every Saab with the kind of mileage mine has (a little over 163k).
Author:  Aizle [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Müs wrote:
3k miles is ridiculous. 5-7 is more rational.


This really depends on the engine, the oil you're using and how you drive.

3k is completely rational and prudent for many older cars with hard driving.
Author:  Taskiss [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
If there was a way to easily check oil, I'd not suggest replacing it early. If oil wasn't as instrumental as it is in the operation of an engine, I'd not suggest replacing it early. If changing oil was more expensive, I'd not suggest replacing it early.

Thing is, oil starts degrading from the first revolution of an engine. So, outside of water contamination, worst case is probably a lifespan of 5000 miles. Change it at 2/3rds of that and you'll always do the best you can to preserve the second most expensive purchase the average person makes in their lives.

It's an additional $40 bucks a year we're talking here.
Author:  Aethien [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good advice, Taskiss, thanks. And, yes, I will probably end up taking it back to this place for the maintenance. They're offering me a "low-mileage" (52K miles) engine, installed and everything, for $3800. Going to call around and see if there's any chance of doing better. Not sure how much I want to screw around with this, though. The shop itself is pretty trustworthy, I think, can't find many negative reviews (Yelp, etc.), unlike the local Jiffy Lubes. I was hoping for more along the lines of $2500, since the engine itself probably goes for $1600 or so. But, it's a fair amount of labor, I guess.
Author:  Khross [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
You change your oil every 3 months or 3000 miles ... whichever comes second.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Aethien wrote:
Good advice, Taskiss, thanks. And, yes, I will probably end up taking it back to this place for the maintenance. They're offering me a "low-mileage" (52K miles) engine, installed and everything, for $3800. Going to call around and see if there's any chance of doing better. Not sure how much I want to screw around with this, though. The shop itself is pretty trustworthy, I think, can't find many negative reviews (Yelp, etc.), unlike the local Jiffy Lubes. I was hoping for more along the lines of $2500, since the engine itself probably goes for $1600 or so. But, it's a fair amount of labor, I guess.


Ask them to break down the parts vs. labor, then you won't have to guess.
Author:  Aethien [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Aethien wrote:
Good advice, Taskiss, thanks. And, yes, I will probably end up taking it back to this place for the maintenance. They're offering me a "low-mileage" (52K miles) engine, installed and everything, for $3800. Going to call around and see if there's any chance of doing better. Not sure how much I want to screw around with this, though. The shop itself is pretty trustworthy, I think, can't find many negative reviews (Yelp, etc.), unlike the local Jiffy Lubes. I was hoping for more along the lines of $2500, since the engine itself probably goes for $1600 or so. But, it's a fair amount of labor, I guess.


Ask them to break down the parts vs. labor, then you won't have to guess.

Hah, good point. I will do that.
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
Khross wrote:
You change your oil every 3 months or 3000 miles ... whichever comes second.


This. Though, even if you don't drive it much you should change it every 6 months, even if you don't hit 3k miles.

With as heavy use as my Jeep is, I end up changing it once a season.
Author:  Khross [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
I change the oil in anything that doesn't get driven every 6 months.

I change the oil in my daily driver every 3 months.

I change the oil in my weekend vehicle every 3000 miles or 6 months.
Author:  darksiege [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
BMW will not even make an appointment for me if it is less than 15k miles per oil change...
Author:  Taamar [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Shelgeyr wrote:
You're not the only one, Aethien. I got off easier than you did, though. Just replaced the fuel pump only to spring a leak in one of the heater hoses a week later, leaving me stranded about a hundred miles from home. $600 for the fuel pump, $130 for the heater hoses, and an assurance from the shop that there's more to come b/c it happens to every Saab with the kind of mileage mine has (a little over 163k).


And now MY car is borked. Clutch is blown. Stranded me on the side of the road on the way to work this morning. Can't even get it looked at until Monday, and it's not like we can afford to fix it at any rate. This is the third car issue in 3 weeks for us.
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
Reminds me; time to change my oil.

Still can't get my air conditioning fixed. I have had it in 12 times. :(
Author:  Aethien [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Aethien wrote:
{snip} I was hoping for more along the lines of $2500, since the engine itself probably goes for $1600 or so. But, it's a fair amount of labor, I guess.


Ask them to break down the parts vs. labor, then you won't have to guess.

I called - the engine is $1833, and the other 1800 is labor.
Author:  Müs [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Could prolly get a new used MV for that :p
Author:  Crimsonsun [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a couple weeks ago I had to have my timing chain replaced as the tensioner was loose and it was knocking around.... that was $1100

Also my vehicle is notorious for engine sludge (Chrysler 2.7L in the intrepid line see http://www.oilsludge.com/), so I change mine every 5k miles and use synthetic without question to stave off the problems the engine has.... So far Ive remained sludgeless
Author:  Diamondeye [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
I need to get a U-joint replaced. 2 were already done, and the vibration lessened considerably but... it's still there. I can't wait to replace this truck. I've had it..11 years now.
Author:  Lonedar [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I need my minivan to last 18 more months. It is showing signs of not caring a rat's *** about my needs.
Author:  Emer [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear about everyone's issues. Although a bad economy is good for my business...But I digress.

In the interest of not typing out a long boring seminar, keep in mind the old rules of oil changes don't apply any more. Not even close. I prided myself on being a guru on oil and properties for a long time until my last class, 8 hours just on engine oil. Ugh.

Turns out what I knew counts for little to nothing any more. The car you have and it's age matters greatly on what it will allow you to put in it and run for a long time but the newer stuff is very specific on what you can run through it. Even then, the manufacturer build a steaming pile and there's not much you can do, IE Chrysler 2.7 etc... Hot and cold spots in the engine create sludging and you can only slow it down, not stop it. Add an engine flush with some miles on it and you're going to simply ruin the thing altogether. Same as blood vessels, you get build up and if you break off a clot, it's going to plug something up. Oil fed parts are terribly common, (injection in Powerstrokes, Variable Valvetrains and Camshafts, oil fed tensioners). Plug one of those and you're looking at a very expensive repair.

There is no way any quick lube place can afford to put the correct oil and filter in your car for 20 bucks. It's just not possible.

I'm starting to see total engine failures in cars with as low as 15K miles and the problem is getting worse all the time. Partly do to oil quality, party do to the US and it's crappy regulation of the terms used. There are very few true synthetic motor oils out there. Mobile 1 and one other.

The term synthetic in the US isn't regulated like it is in Europe. There is has to begin with a grade 4 (really good) stock and then be built from there. In the US they can take a grade 1 stock (really shitty) and mix it with a grade 3 (mediocre) and call it a synthetic, or synthetic blend or any number of things, but it's still crap, and you pay more for it not knowing.

The API starburst on the back of the bottle means nothing now. API (American Petroleum Institute) says it meets the standards. That's the oil company telling you that, not the manufacturer. Even the newer ILSAC (International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee) standard doesn't meet most manufacturers specifications. The best you can do is find you actual vehicle oil standards and use the newer rating from ACEA. Rating are from A1-A5 for gas and B1-B5 for diesel.

Oil is blood for your car so do some homework if you can or get a technician who will do it for you. Good enough just isn't any more. Auto makers now are taking oil samples at the first sign of trouble and if there is something there that shouldn't be, then you're screwed.

Let's not even talk about the fact that these standards can change up to every 6 months and sometimes they change, and even the manufacturer doesn't have the oil available they require you to put in your car.

That's the short version.
Author:  Nevandal [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An expensive lesson in maintenance
Khross wrote:
You change your oil every 3 months or 3000 miles ... whichever comes second.



This is my philosophy. I usually end up getting 3000 miles every 6-8 months, though, so I'm not sure it's the best way to go. :D
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