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Not a Fan of the Crunchy Movement
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Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Not a Fan of the Crunchy Movement
So, I was raised in an upper middle class home with a doctor's wife for a mother who was big into recycling, energy-saving, tofu eating, no processed foods, no sugar, no eating out, etc long before it was cool.
I'm used to the whole save-the-rainforest lifestyle, it's not foreign to me.

However, I am not a fan of the new so-called 'Crunchy Moms' movement. Most of these women are doing this just because it's a "thing" to do now and it's like the blind leading the blind...kind of scary really when they are dealing with counter-top fermented home potions that have been known to cause death (Kombucha) and women are blindly making this just on advice on the internet in chat groups.
Women are convinced that they can treat their kids tooth decay with coconut oil and their infections with spices like garlic and cayenne. They don't vaccinate their kids, they don't take them to the doctor...everything has a "home remedy."
They are big on things like raw milk for their kids too.
I'm sorry but didn't the advent of pasteurization drop the fetal mortality rate? Don't people live longer and die less because we invented antibiotics instead of garlic cloves?? :psyduck:
Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
What is a "Crunchy Mom"?

But I also scratch my head over retards who don't seem to understand that modern nutrition, science and medicine have moved the life expectancy from 40-50 years to 70+ in the span of a century.

Also as a ridiculous aside, people who run excessively. Marathons are based on a historical event where the dude who completed it dropped DEAD at the end of the run. Do you seriously think humans evolved to run continuously for 3+ hours? Because we see that in nature all the time right? Horses, wolves, lions they all run for extended periods of time... oh wait... they don't.
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:16 am ]
Post subject: 
20 years ago, we referred to them as "Granola Crunching, Teva/Burkenstock sandal wearing, tree-hugging, tofu-eating hippies."
Modern day, they refer to themselves as simply "Crunchy" and they think that it is modern society and the man that is bringing us down and preventing us from true health...that modern medicine is a conspiracy and to a certain extent, so are modern conveniences like disposable diapers.
Crunchy people avoid doctors, avoid modern medicine, grow their own food or buy organic, and use cloth diapers.
They will tell you ridiculous things like your children's cavities will disappear if you rub them with coconut oil, and to get rid of a bacterial infection to shove a whole clove of fresh garlic up your hoo-ha.
Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Is hoo-ha a gender specific orifice or does it work for both sexes?
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I would call your urethra a tiny hoo-ha. But you'd have to mince the garlic before shoving it in there.
Author:  Aizle [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:46 am ]
Post subject: 
LK this is all just a part of Natural Selection.
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Aizle wrote:
LK this is all just a part of Natural Selection.


:lol: I would have to agree with you on that.
Author:  Corolinth [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:53 am ]
Post subject: 
This is why I do not support forcing Christian scientists to take their dying children to the hospital. (You know, the yokels who think you can defeat cancer by praying). They have already passed their stupidity along to their children. People need to be allowed to make bad choices so that their genes can be eliminated from the pool. Crunchy moms are no different.
Author:  Kirra [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:03 am ]
Post subject: 
We are seeing a ton of these kids...ones that have no vaccines, coming in very sick and the parents won't let you give them anything....


Why do they go to ER then, is my question. We end up DCing them after they refuse all the things the dr suggests.

Edit: I agree completely, Coro, Jehovah witnesses are brought in and they refuse transfusions...then it's either watch them die or get a court order to go over the families head.
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Coro has a point...the Crunchy Moms are not much different than the religious extremists (let's not lump them in with everyday Christians, Coro, please?) in regards to healthcare other than the motivation behind it.

(Did I just somewhat agree with both Coro and Aizle both in the same thread? Holy cow. I need to go have my head examined.)
Author:  shuyung [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
He didn't. He referred only to Christian Scientists.
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
shuyung wrote:
He didn't. He referred only to Christian Scientists.


I know but I hate the that the term Christian was in there...I'm nit-picking, I know, but I'd rather refer to them as religious extremists. I don't want to get into *that* debate though, so...*shrug*
Author:  shuyung [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject: 
But that's the name of their denomination. I don't know how you can "hate" that.
Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
This is why I do not support forcing Christian scientists to take their dying children to the hospital.

All better!
Author:  Lenas [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not a Fan of the Crunchy Movement
While I don't particularly see a problem with the raw milk, kombucha or healthy eating parts, if you're gonna go to the hospital then let 'em do their damn job. There are people that eat healthy and understand why they're doing it, and there are people that try to do "healthy" things because people convinced them to. They're the problem.
Author:  FarSky [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
shuyung wrote:
But that's the name of their denomination. I don't know how you can "hate" that.

Aye, it's a separate group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science
Author:  Corolinth [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Kirra wrote:
Edit: I agree completely, Coro, Jehovah witnesses are brought in and they refuse transfusions...then it's either watch them die or get a court order to go over the families head.
We should respect their beliefs enough to let them die for those beliefs.
Author:  Rynar [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Much in the same way that calling someone niggardly is not a racial slur, the term Christian Scientist should not be offensive to any thinking Christian of any other denomination. Just because something sounds, or is written, similarly does not make it the same.
Author:  FarSky [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think there's a happy-medium to be had here. We seek out as much organic/fresh food (fruits, veggies, and meat) as we can find (though don't think much of it if we can't). However, I have a healthy respect for science and technology; if a doctor tells me I need something, guess what? I **** need it. Appeal to authority? Maybe. But they're more knowledgable about their **** than I am. But I don't believe food should be **** with unless it needs to be **** with (pasteurization is only smart, for instance, but do I want throw pesticide-laden grapes down my gullet? Nope. Same with hormone-laden meat.) Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that everything labeled "organic" is actually 100% clean or pure or blah blah blah, but is it generally better? Yeah.

By the same token, I don't purchase antibacterial soaps, etc. for our home or office. Because, well, yeah.
Author:  Kirra [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Kirra wrote:
Edit: I agree completely, Coro, Jehovah witnesses are brought in and they refuse transfusions...then it's either watch them die or get a court order to go over the families head.
We should respect their beliefs enough to let them die for those beliefs.


I agree again...but unfortunately that is not what happens. The ethics committee gets involved and I think they end up making them a ward of the state and the family can't refuse the treatment anymore. It can only be refused by the patient, then when they go unconscious and they are a ward of the state we can do whatever is necessary.
Author:  Nitefox [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Where do the old ball coaches fall in with all this? "Here boy, lemme see that...awwwwwwwww it ain't nuthin, just rub some dirt on it." Always seemed to work.
Author:  Midgen [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem I have with taking medical advice from my Doctor (and we've had long heartfelt conversations about this.. ane he's admitted 'guilt' if you will....), is that most doctors get most of their information from drug companies (directly, or indirectly).

I can't stand that the default answer to 'your blood pressure is a little high' is ', here take some pills'. Or, your cholesterol is a bit high, take a pill, or your A1C is a little high.. take a pill..

I don't have a problem being prescribed a medication to treat a medical problem. I do have a problem being prescribed a medication to treat poor decision making (poor diet, no exercise, etc...).

I recently had a blood panel done (it's been about two years), and my A1C was in the range determined to be too high by someone somewhere.

Instead of asking me if I've been monitoring my blood sugar (I hadn't), or how my diet has been (it's been fairly poor), he immediately starts talking about Metformin....

I told him to put his pen down and lets talk about some other things first. How easy would it be to quietly take the metformin prescription and then stop for a large chocolate shake on the way home? I was out to dinner with a friend once, at a place notorious for large portions. Trying to be careful about by weight and my blood sugar (health in general), i was trying to make a 'healthy' choice, and was struggling to find one. My friend chuckles and says, 'Just pop an extra Glucophage and go for it'... I didn't laugh....

This is my problem with the medical industry in general. It's adapted itself to make drug companies profitable, and not make humans healthier.
Author:  Kirra [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
You are in the minority, Midgen. 98% of the people I see in ER want a pill to make them feel better and one that lets them keep on with their unhealthy habits.

People with diverticulitis...have flare up after flare up...come in writhing in pain and want dilaudid, when all they would need to do is change their diet..stop eating nuts and seeds, but do they? Nope
Author:  NephyrS [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would prefer that in discussions such as these, modern science and technology not get used interchangeably with modern medicine.

Modern medicine is a highly empirical field dominated by (relatively) small case studies with very statistical margins for "improvements" and very, very large error bars.

Modern medicine doesn't care whether something has a physiological explanation, whether it's supported with any theory, or whether we understand in any way *how* something works... But if enough people say that it works, it must work.

And that's really not so different from the way people look at home remedies.

The differences are largely in the amount of money and hype pumped into something, and the amount of time spent properly "analyzing" the data to make the right result pop out.

I realize this might sound overly cynical, but I'm quite cynical about the pharmaceutical industry as a whole, and the hold it has over a lot of the medical field.

Drugs are just chemicals that are synthesized or extracted, often from natural sources. There's no reason to downplay the actual natural sources as therapeutics.

And in the scheme of things, I'd say proper exercise and nutrition is way, way up there in importance, as is lowering the consumption of preservatives present in partially prepared foods.

Some people have chemical imbalances that will need synthetic medications to correct. But lots more are using (as Midgen posted) medication to cover up lifestyle problems.

And the issues with vaccinations and immune response are probably something best discussed in another thread. Vaccinations are always a risk-reward balance. You're basically pumping "junk" into your body to provoke an immune response. Not everyone responds well to said "junk" at all. There are some newer vaccinations on the market that are much more effective, and developed in a much more sensible fashion, but it's a very new field.
Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Midgen wrote:
The problem I have with taking medical advice from my Doctor (and we've had long heartfelt conversations about this.. ane he's admitted 'guilt' if you will....), is that most doctors get most of their information from drug companies (directly, or indirectly).

I can't stand that the default answer to 'your blood pressure is a little high' is ', here take some pills'. Or, your cholesterol is a bit high, take a pill, or your A1C is a little high.. take a pill..

I don't have a problem being prescribed a medication to treat a medical problem. I do have a problem being prescribed a medication to treat poor decision making (poor diet, no exercise, etc...).

I recently had a blood panel done (it's been about two years), and my A1C was in the range determined to be too high by someone somewhere.

Instead of asking me if I've been monitoring my blood sugar (I hadn't), or how my diet has been (it's been fairly poor), he immediately starts talking about Metformin....

I told him to put his pen down and lets talk about some other things first. How easy would it be to quietly take the metformin prescription and then stop for a large chocolate shake on the way home? I was out to dinner with a friend once, at a place notorious for large portions. Trying to be careful about by weight and my blood sugar (health in general), i was trying to make a 'healthy' choice, and was struggling to find one. My friend chuckles and says, 'Just pop an extra Glucophage and go for it'... I didn't laugh....

This is my problem with the medical industry in general. It's adapted itself to make drug companies profitable, and not make humans healthier.


How much of that falls on the drug company versus the fact that people don't want to acknowledge it is really their problem? I'm fat because it's genetic, not because I eat a Big Mac meal every day (with a DIET cola I might add thankyouverymuch!!) and how dare you insinuate my lifestyle is full of wrong choices? Clearly you are just a shitty doctor. As a doctor would you continue down that line of pissing off and losing all your patients when an alternative treatment exists?
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