The Glade 4.0 :: View topic - Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story

I suspect (I could be wrong) that I will be somewhere near the middle of what you encounter.

My view, with limited info, is that it's a terrible idea. But, people are welcome to have terrible ideas, and I don't particularly want to hear about it when I have a terrible idea, so have at it.

As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so. I also think it will diminish their father to some degree. How much this will all matter, only time will tell.

As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so.

Arathain Kelvar wrote:

Yeah, this is kinda the response I expect from most people. (If not the same points, the same general opinion, anyway.)
What is concerning is that your argument bothers me, and I shouldn't really give a **** what you think. How much worse will the opinions of people I actually know bother me?

Well, my response to you, had you not asked my honest opinion would be something along the lines of, "not for me, none of my business."

I don't know your situation that well Talya, but I have heard bits and pieces. Have you thought this through?

While you have my support to do what makes you happy, have you thought about the other two people you love? Have you spoken to her about kids? Is she okay with not having her own? If she wants them, will you look to adoption or maybe borrowing your husband's sperm?

Then there are issues with inheritance. In the proverbial bus situation, will she be looking after your kids? Or will your money go into a trust fund for the kids later. Can wills be challenged in Canada and can she essentially be sued out of security? Will she be okay with that?

I believe those that love you will accept you for who you are, no matter what you chose in the bedroom. However love is easy, life and legal stuff is what’s more annoying.

polyamorous relationships are not illegal. Actual polygamous marriage is. So no, not really.

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
Many years ago, something remarkable happened to me. For eleven and a half years, things were so incredibly simple, defying expectactions for a polyamorous closed relationship. Everything just worked. Part of the reason that it worked, however, is Lorelei has some emotional hangups that prevent her from getting close to people. She had a difficult life before meeting us. I like to think we've made it easier. But we were safe ... a source of intimacy and relationship that didn't require her to share much of herself or open her heart to others - a 'low-calorie' relationship that she thought gave her all the benefits, with none of the vulnerability. See, the problem is, it was never casual. Not even from the beginning. It was not a subtle thing, or even a hidden thing. We all knew it. She'd fallen in love, and so had I. This didn't at all change anything between my husband and I, our relationship has gotten stronger every year, and it will be 17 years since we were married this August. But Lor has realized she needs more. She's been in the closet as a lesbian for all this time, and worse yet, she's told nobody about the only person she's ever loved. Somewhere along the line she realized it wasn't enough. The emotional toll is slow, but over time it adds up. Over the last month and a half, this came to a head, and nearly cost us dearly, but somehow we seem to be recovering, and now we're now figuring out what to do about it. This isn't only coming out of the closet that you're gay/bi. That would be easy in comparison. Heterosexual monogamous couples understand gay or lesbian love, even when they disagree with it, because ultimately it's no different than heterosexual love. Romantic love is romantic love. There's so much more to this. She wants to openly join our family. While there's nothing legal that can be done to join us (although we can arrange to get her next-of-kin benefits from a legal standpoint through separate legal documents), we're considering a simple handfasting ceremony, getting her to move in with us, and letting all our friends and family know. So that's where we are. Our first test is going to be explaining it easily to the kids. But with kids, it's simple. "Auntie Lor is joining our family. Mommy loves her, and she loves mommy. Mommy still loves daddy, nothing has changed there. Would you like her to be part of our family?" I already know what their response will be. My son is old enough to have some uncomfortable questions about that, but ultimately he'll be happy, too. Telling parents, siblings, friends; it's not going to be easy. People won't understand how three people can share that way. It's gotta be worth it, though. Most, but not all, of you know my story. I figure, though, if I can't make it public with a bunch of acquaintances i've never met in person, I'm going to have real problems with the next step, yes?

Author:	Corolinth [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
You think this will make your children happy. You know it will make you and Lorelai happy. Your husband was on board with the idea even before you were. He loves you for who you are, and that's a bisexual woman with a female lover. Who else matters?

Author:	Aizle [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:41 am ]
Post subject:
For what it's worth, you've got my full support and acceptance. I happen to know others in polyamorous relationships, so maybe I'm a low bar to get over, but it sounds like you're doing all the right things and making the right choices for your family.

Author:	Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:14 am ]
Post subject:
I suspect (I could be wrong) that I will be somewhere near the middle of what you encounter. My view, with limited info, is that it's a terrible idea. But, people are welcome to have terrible ideas, and I don't particularly want to hear about it when I have a terrible idea, so have at it. As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so. I also think it will diminish their father to some degree. How much this will all matter, only time will tell.

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
Arathain Kelvar wrote: I suspect (I could be wrong) that I will be somewhere near the middle of what you encounter. My view, with limited info, is that it's a terrible idea. But, people are welcome to have terrible ideas, and I don't particularly want to hear about it when I have a terrible idea, so have at it. As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so. I also think it will diminish their father to some degree. How much this will all matter, only time will tell. Yeah, this is kinda the response I expect from most people. (If not the same points, the same general opinion, anyway.) What is concerning is that your argument bothers me, and I shouldn't really give a **** what you think. How much worse will the opinions of people I actually know bother me?

The Glade 4.0 https://gladerebooted.net/

Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8858	Page 1 of 5

Author:	Corolinth [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
This is why I told you last week to let your husband handle the questions. Arathain said it - diminish their father. How, exactly? The implication here is that your husband is a poor sap who doesn't realize he's a victim, that his wife is cheating on him (and with a woman, no less!), that he's unable to properly satisfy a woman's desires, and unable to take care of her and the children. Now, almost everybody will deny it, because nobody wants to think that they're so crude and ill-mannered to suggest such a thing. I called attention to it, but I don't believe for a moment that Arathain intends to insult anyone with his statement. Nevertheless, that's what's lurking underneath all of the questions, all of the objections, and all of the protests: It makes your husband appear as less of a man, and why would a loving wife do that to him? So you stand back, and you let your husband take it from there. It's one thing for people to hear you talk about how he's involved and how he accepts the relationship. It's quite another thing to see him stand up and defend you, to hear him lay out the, "My wife, my bedroom, my business," line with some bass in his voice. People aren't just questioning your decisions and your judgment, they're questioning his manhood. They need to hear him growl at them for it. They're questioning you on good, old-fashioned family values. You let your husband show them otherwise. People might not agree, they might not understand, and they might not accept your relationship, but they will respect it.

Author:	Hopwin [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Arathain Kelvar wrote: As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so. ^This but more to the degree of how it will affect the children and their lives. It is becoming more socially accepted at all ages to have my two moms or my two dads but (and I hope I am wrong) not so much my dad and my two moms. I suspect once it gets out into the school community your children may face shunning and their friends' parents will begin steering their children away from yours.

Author:	shuyung [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:59 pm ]
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I've always imagined Talya's husband lounging around in a toga and laurel wreath, occasionally declaring "Et nunc, in orgium!"

Author:	Vladimirr [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Taly - Good for you. I sort of assumed you guys had already gone through this step of the process, for some reason. I'll preface this with "what you're doing is wayyyyyy not my cup of tea", but I completely echo what Coro said in his first comment: As long as you and your family are happy, who cares? Even though we're in different situations, I'll offer you some tips that I've learned in my situation. (You probably know all of this, but I'll say it anyway.) Acceptance is not a quick process, and there's no finish line. You'll have good days and bad days. Good weeks and bad weeks. It'll get better, and it'll get worse. There may be casualties along the way. Examine your motives. Are you doing this because you want to live a happy life, or are you doing it to rebel, grab attention, and flaunt your lifestyle? (I'm 99% sure it's the former.) As far as the latter, while some people need to go through that phase in life... it's not healthy or constructive and it probably won't end well. Don't let a label change the nature of the relationship. If things have been good for eleven years, and now you feel like you have to act differently because things are "official", well then that's just not good for anyone involved. Sometimes, people are going to be jerks. Even more times, people will be unintentionally insensitive, and it's going to fan the flames of insecurity. Lean on each other for strength in these times, instead of letting it create division. Your kids are still young, so you've got an easier start of it, but it's still going to get really interesting when they hit their "I hate my parents" years. (A good rule of thumb is to recall in your mind everything you put your folks through, then multiply by the number of kids you have. Yeaaah.) Dealing with those years are more difficult than any other friends, relatives, or random strangers put together. That said, if your hearts are in the right place, you'll get through it. I disagree with Coro's second post of growling at anyone who questions your motives. If I could offer a different perspective - it's going to get tiring if you constantly are on the defensive. It also points to internal insecurity. Obviously, you have to be prepared for the hard questions with people you are close to, but do you really feel the need to explain and defend yourself to the random guy in Wal-Mart? What about the next one, and the next one? If your husband feels the need to puff his chest and prove he's a man every time, there's going to be trouble. You'll probably come up with some witty retorts to use in situations like that, but more often the best option is to laugh to yourselves about the ignoramus, and continue about your business. It's going to take some fortitude to do that, but it'll build up over time. That's about all I can think of for now. Good luck, and I hope it works out.

Author:	Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Talya wrote: Arathain Kelvar wrote: I suspect (I could be wrong) that I will be somewhere near the middle of what you encounter. My view, with limited info, is that it's a terrible idea. But, people are welcome to have terrible ideas, and I don't particularly want to hear about it when I have a terrible idea, so have at it. As far as the kids go, I think you are very wrong. It is not simple, and even if it seems so now, it will not remain so. I also think it will diminish their father to some degree. How much this will all matter, only time will tell. Yeah, this is kinda the response I expect from most people. (If not the same points, the same general opinion, anyway.) What is concerning is that your argument bothers me, and I shouldn't really give a **** what you think. How much worse will the opinions of people I actually know bother me? Well, my response to you, had you not asked my honest opinion would be something along the lines of, "not for me, none of my business." I'm certainly not in the habit of sticking my nose in other people's business. But what I posted is what I would think. If what I posted bothers you at all, you're in for some headaches, as you allude to. If you care what people think, then start acting normal. If you're unwilling to, then stop caring what people think. I know, easier said.... My primary concerns are how your kids will handle this long term. Remember, how they feel will change over time - as they grow. You'll have to deal with this more than once. They may lose respect for their father, for the reasons Coro gives. They may become angry at you for your treatment of their father. They may resent the other woman because she's the "cause" of the... whatever they're concerned about. They may be over sensitive to even normal marital strife. What's going to be most tricky is their changing feelings over time. Will be hard to keep up with. And then there's the big question of how, if at all, this will affect their approach/view/success in relationships. If it affects it at all.

Author:	Kirra [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
Taly, My ideas about you changed after I chatted with you and got to know you a tiny bit, maybe others will be the same. If you and your family are happy, I agree, who cares what others think. The people that are close to you probably already accept and know you and that you are not a traditional sort...so, given time, I'm sure they will deal with it truely out in the open. It's not their business how you live your life. There are so many miserable people and screwed up families in the world. Grab at the chances you feel will make your life happy. As for your children? It doesnt take a different home life to make other kids be mean to your kids. Anything can bring on attacks, but the difference is...having a stable, loving home environment to escape to and help them deal with whatever may happen. Good luck to you and your family, Taly

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Arathain Kelvar wrote: Well, my response to you, had you not asked my honest opinion would be something along the lines of, "not for me, none of my business." No, I respect that. Notice I didn't argue with your post. I instead took your post as representative of the type of stuff I'll have to deal with, and therefore useful. And yeah, she has a decent job. Financially, this could only help. Not thinking about that...

Author:	Müs [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Not much I can say here that Coro hasn't said better already.

Author:	Lydiaa [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
I don't know your situation that well Talya, but I have heard bits and pieces. Have you thought this through? While you have my support to do what makes you happy, have you thought about the other two people you love? Have you spoken to her about kids? Is she okay with not having her own? If she wants them, will you look to adoption or maybe borrowing your husband's sperm? Then there are issues with inheritance. In the proverbial bus situation, will she be looking after your kids? Or will your money go into a trust fund for the kids later. Can wills be challenged in Canada and can she essentially be sued out of security? Will she be okay with that? I believe those that love you will accept you for who you are, no matter what you chose in the bedroom. However love is easy, life and legal stuff is what’s more annoying.

Author:	Rynar [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:
What, exactly, are Canada's laws surrounding polygamy? As for how people react (and how your government reacts in regards to allowing you to retain custody of you children) may be similar to how they react to polygamist Mormon sects.

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Author:	Taskiss [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
Good luck, I hope you and yours all the best.

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Glade Guinnea Pigs: A Coming Out Story
Lydiaa wrote: I don't know your situation that well Talya, but I have heard bits and pieces. Have you thought this through? While you have my support to do what makes you happy, have you thought about the other two people you love? Have you spoken to her about kids? Is she okay with not having her own? If she wants them, will you look to adoption or maybe borrowing your husband's sperm? Then there are issues with inheritance. In the proverbial bus situation, will she be looking after your kids? Or will your money go into a trust fund for the kids later. Can wills be challenged in Canada and can she essentially be sued out of security? Will she be okay with that? I believe those that love you will accept you for who you are, no matter what you chose in the bedroom. However love is easy, life and legal stuff is what’s more annoying. These legal things we're already wrestling with in our discussions. As for her own kids, she doesn't really want them, but if she changes her mind, she can borrow my husband, that's certainly not an issue.

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Canada doesn't allow it in any form. Any legal agreements would need to be carefully constructed in a way that they'd work for someone who wasn't part of the family.

Author:	Rynar [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:58 pm ]
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Do you fear reprisal from law enforcement and family services once they learn of your arrangement?

Author:	Crimsonsun [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:
I wish you luck Taly - I tried something like that, but it didn't work out. I couldn't do it, but I hope it works out well for you and everyone

Author:	Talya [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:
polyamorous relationships are not illegal. Actual polygamous marriage is. So no, not really.

Author:	Rynar [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Talya wrote: polyamorous relationships are not illegal. Actual polygamous marriage is. So no, not really. That's a good thing, as having the state take your kids away would be my only concern going forward. If that's a non-issue then I wouldn't worry about anything else. Sure there are likely some bumpy roads and tears ahead of you, but life is far to short to deny yourself romantic happiness because of the ignorance and dogma of those who should spend more time minding their own business. I wish you and your family nothing but the very best.

Author:	Micheal [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:02 pm ]
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Follow your hearts, and to blazes with what anyone else thinks. Your husband accepted that you love two people long ago. He and Lorelei are the only two adults that matter in this situation. The kids should be let know as gently and lovingly as possible. Do not let them get the idea that they can say no to the situation, because they will (they are kids, give them power and they will exercise it just to test the limits involved). Let them know you still love them as much as ever and that Auntie Lorelei will be closer to play with them and be more a part of the family than she ever has been. She does love your children too, doesn't she?

Author:	Raell [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:08 am ]
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Will there be bunk beds now? Honestly, if you all love each other and the kids are ok with it, who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? Rock on Sis.