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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:49 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Obamacare is accepted verbiage for this bill, the initial statement is a clear inference from the stated intentions of the bill, and "suspect" items being discounted is itself suspect without evidence.


It's not "accepted". It's a loaded term.


So are all subsequent terms you're attempting to use. Furthermore, your searching on those matters hold no weight, as you've been unable to restrict them to only the US, whereas Kaffis' search, by its nature, does exactly that.


No weight? None at all? Give me a break.

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Yes, because I actually know what is in the bill (well, more than most of the congressmen who passed it anyway). That being said, what I find misleading here is that you're refusing to acknowledge one of the biggest reasons we allegedly "had to" pass this bill: to help those denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. This sentence from the OP article speaks specifically to that reason, and your conflation of the topic or defensiveness about the law are leading you, in my opinion, to view the article in a negative light.


Look at the bolded. One of... That's my point. There are other reasons, both big and small. The article states that the program is 20 billion in cost. It helps 8k people. He then turns around and says that the government annexed 1/6 of the economy to help 8k people.

It's a misleading and inaccurate statement. He put this in there for no other purpose than wanting to blow it out of proportion.

If you can't see the bias in this, then I'm afraid I can't help you. Wake up, man - don't be one of those people that cannot see the bias in anything they already agree with. Everything is biased - look for it, find it, know it is there. Otherwise you'll end up buying into a lot of garbage.

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Amusingly (to me at least), if you'd said this author was myopic or narrow-minded about the issue and the article failed to retain perspective, I'd agree with you whole-heartedly. Misleading and biased? Marginally so, perhaps, if at all.


It was. Also, it was misleading and biased.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:20 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
And was only one of several examples, and not worth squabbling over.


Then why'd you start squabbling over it? There's better examples of bias in that article (like the difference between "costs $20 billion" and "annexes 1/6 of the economy") than "Obamacare".

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:35 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
And was only one of several examples, and not worth squabbling over.


Then why'd you start squabbling over it? There's better examples of bias in that article (like the difference between "costs $20 billion" and "annexes 1/6 of the economy") than "Obamacare".


I didn't. When it was challenged, my response was this:

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It's not "accepted". It's a loaded term.

Regardless, the big one is this one:


See how I don't really care?

That's one of my big frustrations on message boards. The conversation can veer off so quickly if you aren't extremely careful what you say. Something you toss out as a miniscule point can just take off sometimes. And then, of course, you feel compelled to explain or defend why you said it, and it just perpetuates it. Next thing you know, 10 pages later, you're debating the meaning of the word "is".


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:03 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
That's one of my big frustrations on message boards. The conversation can veer off so quickly if you aren't extremely careful what you say. Something you toss out as a miniscule point can just take off sometimes. And then, of course, you feel compelled to explain or defend why you said it, and it just perpetuates it. Next thing you know, 10 pages later, you're debating the meaning of the word "is".


Especially when the core point would be a losing argument the other poster, so misdirection and obfuscation become the "winning" strategy.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:12 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
And was only one of several examples, and not worth squabbling over.


Then why'd you start squabbling over it? There's better examples of bias in that article (like the difference between "costs $20 billion" and "annexes 1/6 of the economy") than "Obamacare".


I didn't. When it was challenged, my response was this:

Quote:
It's not "accepted". It's a loaded term.

Regardless, the big one is this one:


See how I don't really care?


In this post you referred to the term of Obamacare as a source of bias no less than 4 times. Coming back later and saying "well, the big ticket one is this one:" doesn't tell anyone you really don't care; just that something else stuck out at you more. If you really didn't care, why'd you pick out 4 different uses of the word Obamacare for individual citations as an indicator of bias?

Ok, fine, I buy that it's not a major thing, and you overemphasized it. People wouldn't be "quibbling" about it if you hadn't done that.

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That's one of my big frustrations on message boards. The conversation can veer off so quickly if you aren't extremely careful what you say. Something you toss out as a miniscule point can just take off sometimes. And then, of course, you feel compelled to explain or defend why you said it, and it just perpetuates it. Next thing you know, 10 pages later, you're debating the meaning of the word "is".


You know what else is frusterating? People trying to change what they said in order to clarify their position, and then blaming everyone else for having responded to what they actually said in the first place. If you're clarifying something fine, but don't ***** at everyone else for their preclarification responses.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:33 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
In this post you referred to the term of Obamacare as a source of bias no less than 4 times. Coming back later and saying "well, the big ticket one is this one:" doesn't tell anyone you really don't care; just that something else stuck out at you more. If you really didn't care, why'd you pick out 4 different uses of the word Obamacare for individual citations as an indicator of bias?

Ok, fine, I buy that it's not a major thing, and you overemphasized it. People wouldn't be "quibbling" about it if you hadn't done that.


I only quoted it that many times because it was used that many times. Clearly, it was overemphasized.

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You know what else is frusterating? People trying to change what they said in order to clarify their position, and then blaming everyone else for having responded to what they actually said in the first place. If you're clarifying something fine, but don't ***** at everyone else for their preclarification responses.


I didn't change anything I said. And I'm not at all ***** for preclarification responses. It's the post-clarification responses. But I'm not really ***** about that - I can't reasonably expect everyone to read the clarification.

That's my frustration - if you're not PERFECTLY clear from the get-go, you can clarify all you want - people aren't going to see it or read it. You are likely to fail to get your point across.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:53 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
In this post you referred to the term of Obamacare as a source of bias no less than 4 times. Coming back later and saying "well, the big ticket one is this one:" doesn't tell anyone you really don't care; just that something else stuck out at you more. If you really didn't care, why'd you pick out 4 different uses of the word Obamacare for individual citations as an indicator of bias?

Ok, fine, I buy that it's not a major thing, and you overemphasized it. People wouldn't be "quibbling" about it if you hadn't done that.


I only quoted it that many times because it was used that many times. Clearly, it was overemphasized.

Quote:
You know what else is frusterating? People trying to change what they said in order to clarify their position, and then blaming everyone else for having responded to what they actually said in the first place. If you're clarifying something fine, but don't ***** at everyone else for their preclarification responses.


I didn't change anything I said. And I'm not at all ***** for preclarification responses. It's the post-clarification responses. But I'm not really ***** about that - I can't reasonably expect everyone to read the clarification.

That's my frustration - if you're not PERFECTLY clear from the get-go, you can clarify all you want - people aren't going to see it or read it. You are likely to fail to get your point across.


Now I just have no idea what you're talking about.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:54 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Now I just have no idea what you're talking about.


Awesome.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:56 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Now I just have no idea what you're talking about.


Awesome.


Perhaps you could clarify?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Now I just have no idea what you're talking about.


Awesome.


Perhaps you could clarify?


**** no.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:08 pm 
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LOL ^


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Well at least this time it only took three-pages to reach this point in the conversation LOL

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