The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:25 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Well, this is depressing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
It’s a simple question with a gut-wrenching answer: In a time of war, is it ever OK to torture an enemy? For decades, the answer was an automatic no. The often-cruel conditions endured by prisoners of war during World War Two spurred the Geneva Conventions, which stipulated an agreed-upon set of standards for handling war victims. By the late 1960s, when any young man could have been drafted to go to Vietnam, the humane treatment of soldiers was at the forefront of many Americans’ concerns.

But now, during a time of two overseas wars, Americans’ opinions on torture seem to have fractured, and largely on generational lines. A new study by the American Red Cross obtained exclusively by The Daily Beast found that a surprising majority—almost 60 percent—of American teenagers thought things like water-boarding or sleep deprivation are sometimes acceptable. More than half also approved of killing captured enemies in cases where the enemy had killed Americans. When asked about the reverse, 41 percent thought it was permissible for American troops to be tortured overseas. In all cases, young people showed themselves to be significantly more in favor of torture than older adults.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Young people weren't alive in the times of the more brutal wars, so to them torture is more of an abstract topic.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Humans have never been good at learning from history.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Aizle wrote:
Humans have never been good at learning from history.


Except in the fields of engineering and science.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:20 am 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Morality is a fluid thing. As much as we look down on, say, the Roman Empire for its use of slavery and bloodsport, they were every bit as moral and righteous a people as we are. Their society was no less valid or right than ours is now. Don't fall into the trap of assuming there is absolute right and wrong that we can use to judge others. In a thousand years, I'm sure historians will be declaring the barbarism of our culture.

(Likely this criticism will have something to do with such affronts to decency as "Reality Television," or Justin Bieber.)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
People by nature are very vengeful. Culturally, we think it's ok to punish people rather than rehabilitate them as though they are sick. Torture fits into this nicely, and it rarely produces good results. Even if it did, those results are just to advance American imperialism for the most part.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:13 am 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Lex Luthor wrote:
we think it's ok


Even this statement bespeaks a value judgement.

Society determines what is "OK." The point of the OP is that 50 years ago, torture was never "OK." Now it is sometimes "OK." My point is, "Surprise! Values change with time and generations. Deal with it."

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:17 am 
Offline
Has a plan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 1584
I think the results speak more to the lack of experience of young people vs older.

When I was a baby, falling down was the worst pain I had ever experienced, and I reacted that way. As an adult, falling down is more embarrasing.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:18 am 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Hannibal wrote:
I think the results speak more to the lack of experience of young people vs older.

When I was a baby, falling down was the worst pain I had ever experienced, and I reacted that way. As an adult, falling down is more embarrasing.


That will go full circle when you're 75 and fall down on the sidewalk and break a hip.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:40 pm 
Offline
Has a plan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 pm
Posts: 1584
Talya wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
I think the results speak more to the lack of experience of young people vs older.

When I was a baby, falling down was the worst pain I had ever experienced, and I reacted that way. As an adult, falling down is more embarrasing.


That will go full circle when you're 75 and fall down on the sidewalk and break a hip.


But by then ill have the depth of experience to realize the situation for what it is. I'm not against punishing our enemies because I believe in a Machevellian approach. In the case of torture for information, its just unreliable. Maybe it will yield a small fragment of information for the bigger picture, but the effort vs reward isn't worth it imho.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:07 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
Talya wrote:
That will go full circle when you're 75 and fall down on the sidewalk and break a hip.
Funny thing, that...

So I was at a movie theater with Mylos (remember him?), I think for Ironman 2, when there's this old gal trying to sit down in one of the seats on the end of the row several rows down. Somehow the conversation led to old people falling and breaking their hip, and Mylos proceeds to explain how it typically happens in the opposite order. Old people do not generally fall and break their hip, but rather they're walking along and their hip breaks, causing them to fall. This is apparently something he learned in one of his anatomy classes back before he switched to a CCNA program.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
Wow, that is depressing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
They should drink more milk or period blood.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group