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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Yes, because allowing more people into the country legally will obviously make it harder for people to lure poor young women (and sometimes men) into sex slavery. :roll:


What are you defining as sex slavery?


What are you defining it as? You're the one that thinks that its a reason to loosen immigration laws.

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I'm sure he thinks that if they can become citizens then all of a sudden people will start caring more and the authorities will do more to put a stop to this.


Why do you think you have any idea of what I might be thinking?


Because it's the only conceivable reason I can think of to connect human traffiking and immigration law and argue that it should be looser?

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Of course there's A) the fact that human traffiking goes in both directions and B) the fact that we're talking about poor ignorant people at the mercy of ruthless criminals. How he thinks they're going to get the chance to become citizens is beyond me. Criminals, contrary to popular belief, do not just fold as soon as you legalize something. They find another way to keep going.


I don't even understand how this relates to what I am saying. There are people that get caught up in the slave trade because they desperately need to get to this country in order to escape gripping poverty and crime. If it was easier to come to this country, it stands to reason that less of them would be in such a position.


Except that it doesn't stand to reason. There's no logical connection there whatsoever. Coming to this country doesn't automatically alleviate their problems. In fact, all it does is import their problems here.

Of course, human traffiking and sex slavery exists in most of the world. Places where people are traffiked neither to or from the U.S. are quite common. The ability to immigrate freely isn't something that will stop it; in fact it facilitates it because it is much ahrder for law enforcement to investigate people coming and going from the country.

I'd love to explain more, but sadly...

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:50 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:

Except that it doesn't stand to reason. There's no logical connection there whatsoever. Coming to this country doesn't automatically alleviate their problems. In fact, all it does is import their problems here.


And yet, all the success stories of people who came here with nothing, even illegally, says other wise. People come here with nothing and make something of themselves. It's one of the reasons people want to come here so badly.

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Of course, human traffiking and sex slavery exists in most of the world. Places where people are traffiked neither to or from the U.S. are quite common. The ability to immigrate freely isn't something that will stop it; in fact it facilitates it because it is much ahrder for law enforcement to investigate people coming and going from the country.


However, one of the incentives for women to willingly enter into situations where they are either traded or are lured into captivity and then traded is the insurmountable financial and time burden associated with legal immirgation to the US. If those barriers were lower, then we would probably see a reduction in sex slavery out of Mexico.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:07 am 
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Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:

Except that it doesn't stand to reason. There's no logical connection there whatsoever. Coming to this country doesn't automatically alleviate their problems. In fact, all it does is import their problems here.


And yet, all the success stories of people who came here with nothing, even illegally, says other wise. People come here with nothing and make something of themselves. It's one of the reasons people want to come here so badly.


For every success story there is a failure story, so no, it does not say otherwise. Once again, you've failed to comprehend what I'm saying. Coming here doesn't AUTOMATICALLY alleviate these problems, it takes hard work and a number of other things, one of which is not being a slave to human traffikers and pimps. People imported here for that purpose never get the opportunity to make a success of themselves. Loosening immigration laws will not change that; it will not stop predators from luring young people into such situations abroad and bringing them here and will make it easier to get them into the country.

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However, one of the incentives for women to willingly enter into situations where they are either traded or are lured into captivity and then traded is the insurmountable financial and time burden associated with legal immirgation to the US. If those barriers were lower, then we would probably see a reduction in sex slavery out of Mexico.


Except that it's not. Even if there were no financial barrier, these people would come here with no skills, little or no English, and no more opportunity than they have now. It would be just as easy to lure them with a promise of "hey, do this and in a few months/years you'll be an American citizen with all kinds of wonderful opportunities!"

In any case, the real problem above is not the fact that there are barriers to entering the U.S.; it's that they are trying to enter the U.S. in these numbers. It's problems in Mexico that drive that train, and allowing more immigration just allows Mexico to ignore its problems longer and create more of a drive for immigration. IT's enabling behavior on a national level.

In any case, once again, sex slavery is prevalent in many places where no such immigration barriers are an issue. This gives us little reason to tink changing that barrier will ahve any effect. In fact, it will probably increase it because it will be easier to smuggle people across the border.

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