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 Post subject: From The WTF? Files
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:30 pm 
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You're talking about a black man being stopped from running for office. Hey let's throw in "Grand Wizard" for some punch!
Engage brain before putting mouth into gear...
:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Perry and Cain have both run off the cliff and are only hanging in the air because they haven't looked down yet. Wile E. Coyote is sitting in the theater munching on popcorn and laughing.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Oh, I agree about Perry:



Cain, not so much.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Cain, not so much.

It amuses me how differently we react to red politicians and blue ones.

Clinton had an affair in (the, capital O?) office and arguably perjures himself in the investigation, and his popularity doesn't take a dip.

Cain has allegations of harassment brought against him, and now he's tanked.

Even if the allegations turn out to be true, given the nature of the women with whom Clinton had those affairs (namely, the authority/intern relationship), the only difference I see here is that Clinton was powerful enough for it to seem like a good idea to the woman, and Cain wasn't.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:03 pm 
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To clarify: there are currently two allegations of sexual misconduct against Cain (from Karen Kraushaar and Sharon Bialek). Bialek's the one onto which Gloria Allred's latched. I admit I haven't been following this much, as I don't really care about Cain as a candidate, but I haven't seen Kraushaar make the media rounds.

That he was part of the NRA (the food-based one) and two female employees complained about inappropriate behaviour from Cain and the NRA paid settlements to them that prevented identification or discussion of the issue is a matter of record. Whether or not that was deserved is unknown, but the settlements were made.

Ah, heck with it. Take it away, Wiki:
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Sexual misconduct accusations
In October 2011, Politico reported that two female employees had complained about inappropriate behavior by Cain during his tenure at the National Restaurant Association. The women reportedly accepted financial settlements from the association which barred them from discussing their allegations further.[38] Cain's campaign initially refused comment,[39] but subsequently acknowledged that the accusations had been made.[40] Cain strongly denied any impropriety, stating: "I have never sexually harassed anyone and those accusations are totally false." He initially denied being aware of any financial settlement with the accusers, but later accepted that some form of payment had been made by the Restaurant Association.[41] He described the allegations as a "witch hunt".[42][43] In an interview with Greta van Susteren, Cain further said that the allegations had been investigated and found baseless. He said one of the specific allegations was making a gesture indicating his wife's height by holding his palm flat, which one of the accusers found objectionable.[44][45] Joel Bennett, the lawyer representing Karen Kraushaar, called Cain's version of events "goofy," stating that "My client would never have filed a complaint of sexual harassment on the basis that she was the same height as his wife. It is ridiculous."[46]

On November 3, 2011, it was reported that a third woman had stated that Cain had commented on her attractiveness and invited her up to his corporate apartment.[47] On November 8, 2011, one of the first two women to accuse Cain was identified as Karen Kraushaar, employed at the US Treasury Department. Kraushaar is a registered Republican, but in 2009 donated to the Democratic party. Kraushaar has also made complaints at her next job and initially demanded thousands of dollars to settle. She later dropped the complaint [48][49][50]

According to The New York Times and Bloomberg News, at a November 7, 2011 press conference, a fourth woman, registered Republican Sharon Bialek, made allegations of a sexual assault in Cain's car in the summer of 1997. At the time, Bialek had recently lost her job at the National Restaurant Association where she had been a subordinate of Cain's, and she was asking him for assistance in either getting her job back or finding a new job. She alleged that, following a dinner meeting to discuss her job search, Cain reached under the skirt of her suit for her genitals and pushed her head toward his crotch. When she questioned his behavior, Bialek said, Cain told her, “You want a job, right?” Bialek has sought legal assistance from lawyer Gloria Allred.[51] At the press conference, Allred showed what she said were two affidavits from people testifying that Bialek had told them of the incident at the time. The affidavits were not released to the press.[52] Cain's campaign team promptly denied the accusations, claiming them to be "completely false", and repeating that he "never harassed anyone".[53] At a press conference on November 8, 2011, Cain said of Bialek, “I don’t even know who this lady is.”[54] But at the November 7, 2011 press conference, Bialek said that she had a recent encounter with Cain, on October 1, 2011, at a tea party event, and that Cain had said he remembered her, and they talked. Amy Jacobson, a Chicago radio talk show host, corroborated Bialek's story about the October 1 meeting to the Chicago Sun-Times: "She talked to him for a few minutes, which made me kind of mad because I wanted to talk to him". Jacobson said that Cain appeared "stone-faced" after smiling at first.[55]

The Cain campaign hired attorney L. Lin Wood to head a team responding to the allegations. Wood warned that any other women coming forward with allegations would face intense scrutiny and might also be subject to legal action, but said he did not intend to scare anyone away from doing so. [56]


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Either that or its the difference between non-consensual acts and consensual.

Monica Lewinsky never claimed that Clinton abused his position as president to get sexual favors or that she was in any way coerced.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Clinton [i]had an affair [b]


He did not have sexual relations with that woman!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:23 pm 
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He didn't have an affair. He had a blow job.

Affair implies he took her out to dinner and spent time with her.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:34 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
It amuses me how differently we react to red politicians and blue ones.

Clinton had an affair in (the, capital O?) office and arguably perjures himself in the investigation, and his popularity doesn't take a dip.

Cain has allegations of harassment brought against him, and now he's tanked.
I don't think this is a red vs blue thing. Rather, Clinton had already won the office Cain is trying to be nominated for. Had Clinton's big sex scandal come out during the 1992 Democratic Primary, he might have tanked as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Quite true. It's one thing to not elect someone over concerns about their moral character, it's quite another to impeach them over it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:18 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Either that or its the difference between non-consensual acts and consensual.

Monica Lewinsky never claimed that Clinton abused his position as president to get sexual favors or that she was in any way coerced.


However, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broaddrick did claim it was non-consensual. Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Sally Perdue, and Dolly Kyle Browning claimed it was consensual.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Cain, not so much.

It amuses me how differently we react to red politicians and blue ones.

Clinton had an affair in (the, capital O?) office and arguably perjures himself in the investigation, and his popularity doesn't take a dip.

Cain has allegations of harassment brought against him, and now he's tanked.

Even if the allegations turn out to be true, given the nature of the women with whom Clinton had those affairs (namely, the authority/intern relationship), the only difference I see here is that Clinton was powerful enough for it to seem like a good idea to the woman, and Cain wasn't.


Because Democrats don't run on platforms of "morality" and "family values" like Republicans do. So when they have affairs, at least they're not being hypocrites like Eliot Spitzer who built his political legacy on squashing prostitution while visiting prostitutes. Liberals don't really care who their representatives are sleeping with, it's not important.

Cain is a bit different because the allegations are of actual harassment rather than just having an affair. But the hangup over infidelity is something that really needs to go because you are not going to change the fact that men who have lots of money and power sleep around, and tend to have egos that make them think they're entitled to take what they want. You know it, I know it, everyone with two brain cells knows it. Ok, not every guy with money and power does it, but the ones that don't are definitely in the minority.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Oh, no doubt, Xeq. I didn't say it surprised me, or baffled me. I know why the blue guys get away with less damage from these things more often than the red guys do. It just amuses me.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Cain, not so much.

It amuses me how differently we react to red politicians and blue ones.

Clinton had an affair in (the, capital O?) office and arguably perjures himself in the investigation, and his popularity doesn't take a dip.

Cain has allegations of harassment brought against him, and now he's tanked.

Even if the allegations turn out to be true, given the nature of the women with whom Clinton had those affairs (namely, the authority/intern relationship), the only difference I see here is that Clinton was powerful enough for it to seem like a good idea to the woman, and Cain wasn't.


It's called political Bushido. We expect this behavior from them liberals, but our conservatives are held to a higher standard. At least that's the only explanation that makes sense. Personally I thought want Clinton did was wrong and I'm glad I have time to wait and see what happens with Mr Cain.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:49 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
It's called political Bushido. We expect this behavior from them liberals, but our conservatives are held to a higher standard. At least that's the only explanation that makes sense. Personally I thought want Clinton did was wrong and I'm glad I have time to wait and see what happens with Mr Cain.


Clinton's entire political appeal was based around him not being ashamed of the fact that he wasn't a paragon of humanity and had the same vices as everyone else. Remember how he evaded the Secret Service to go watch movies and liked to take the motorcade down to McDonalds? That's why he was popular. He told everyone, "I'm just like you, and I'm President, that means you can be great too." Pretty much every guy alive dreams about having the money and power to **** twelve women at once and have them all be OK with it, their wives included. As long as you're not a massive hypocrite about it, like Republicans are when they run on platforms saying we have to keep the gays out of our sacred marriage institution because they'll tarnish it, you can get by with infidelity because most people would do exactly the same thing in your position.


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 Post subject: Re: From The WTF? Files
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:35 am 
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Did someone say Bushido Brown?


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 Post subject: From The WTF? Files
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:53 am 
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I think you are over generalizing Xeq. A lot of people think the way you do but not enough to say pretty much every. I'm willing to concede that some of those people wear labels such as Republican and even Christian. It's not everyone or even pretty much so. I think it's a group that Is larger than it appears due to media influences on the culture.

Maybe we are just ascribing different percentages to pretty much everyone.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:47 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Because Democrats don't run on platforms of "morality" and "family values" like Republicans do. So when they have affairs, at least they're not being hypocrites like Eliot Spitzer who built his political legacy on squashing prostitution while visiting prostitutes. Liberals don't really care who their representatives are sleeping with, it's not important.

Cain is a bit different because the allegations are of actual harassment rather than just having an affair. But the hangup over infidelity is something that really needs to go because you are not going to change the fact that men who have lots of money and power sleep around, and tend to have egos that make them think they're entitled to take what they want. You know it, I know it, everyone with two brain cells knows it. Ok, not every guy with money and power does it, but the ones that don't are definitely in the minority.


Aside from the fact that you have no statistical information to indicate "most" men with (undefined amounts of) money and power sleep around, the fact is that few Republicans really run on "family values" or "morals" unless they're running for re-election in areas that demand that sort of thing anyhow.

Not only that, but plenty of liberals do care who their candidates are sleeping with. Being liberal does not mean you trust someone who cheats on their spouse, and quite a few people who are otherwise liberal really do not approve of homosexuality.

Then, of course, there's the fact that liberals care a great deal who their representative (or anyone else's representative) sleeps with if that representative is not a liberal and it can be used against them politically. The hypocrisy accusation may be appropriate in some cases like Spitzer's but in a lot of cases it's a case of simply pretending that because George Bush I made a comment about traditional family values 20+ years ago, that traditional values and morality are therefore the primary campaign goals of all Republicans.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Cain, not so much.

It amuses me how differently we react to red politicians and blue ones.

Clinton had an affair in (the, capital O?) office and arguably perjures himself in the investigation, and his popularity doesn't take a dip.

Cain has allegations of harassment brought against him, and now he's tanked.

Even if the allegations turn out to be true, given the nature of the women with whom Clinton had those affairs (namely, the authority/intern relationship), the only difference I see here is that Clinton was powerful enough for it to seem like a good idea to the woman, and Cain wasn't.


One of those is mutual, the other is not. That is a HUGELY important difference.


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 Post subject: Re: From The WTF? Files
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Or would be if not for the A) perjury and B) the fact that one is an allegation and the other isn't.

There's also the fact that sexual harassment charges are very very easy to make; almost any comment can be construed as sexual harassment given the right incentive.

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 Post subject: Re: From The WTF? Files
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Or would be if not for the A) perjury and B) the fact that one is an allegation and the other isn't.

There's also the fact that sexual harassment charges are very very easy to make; almost any comment can be construed as sexual harassment given the right incentive.


STOP SEXUALLY HARASSING MEH!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
As long as you're not a massive hypocrite about it, like Republicans are when they run on platforms saying we have to keep the gays out of our sacred marriage institution because they'll tarnish it, you can get by with infidelity because most people would do exactly the same thing in your position.


You mean aside from the fact that there's plenty of liberal politicians that also run with the position that marriage is between a man and a woman? Like.. John Kerry and Barak Obama?

I have news for you, more importantly, most people would not do the same thing in the same position as Clinton.

All you're doing is just pretending there's some major republican hypocrisy in this regard that doesn't exist amongst liberals. It's utter bullshit; the fact is that hypocrisy in regard to sexual matters among leftist politicians is acceptable to the left because it's either leftist politicians, or just letting politicians on the right win wholesale. So, what we get is this sort of behavior of just blatantly pretending that leftist politicians are all perfectly fine with gay marriage and never ever espouse family values of any sort, pretending all Republicans espouse such positions, and furthermore pretending "most people would do it."

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