The Glade 4.0

To you. Your religion ideology has fixated on this, to the point that you claim you would rather die now "free" as you see it, than live a long life of prosperity and happiness fettered by laws you don't agree with. In a rational, practical sense, freedom is simply being able to do the things you want to do without anything - be it law, economics, health, or other concerns, constraining you. And that is the only type of freedom that matters, in the end. Abstract principles are bullshit, the only thing that matters is the real, the tangible...that which affects me. I don't care if the law gives me the "freedom" to teleport, or if it takes that "freedom" away, because I can't do it anyway. Similarly, I don't care if i'm taxed, so long as that taxation doesn't impede my financial freedom to do what I want to do. (Sadly, it usually does.)

Pragmatism--practical and tangible results are all that matters.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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You act as if there is no belief you would die for Taly.

I'm not free now. All things considered I would wish to live free.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

There are things i would willingly die for. There is no "belief" included in that list.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Except that's not practical or pragmatic.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

You think? I'd love to see that justification.

I have no "beliefs" as Elmarnieh is referring to the term. There are no "right" philosophies or moralities, no greater purpose. The only purpose to life is enjoying it to the extent possible and making it enjoyable for the other people you care about. What is left to fight for is whatever makes life better for me and those I care about. That's all that matters. When discussing things at a more general level, I'll expand that to encompass everyone in whatever group of people matters in the discussion.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Dying for a cause, any cause is not pratical or pragamatic. I don't think you are as pragmatic as you'd have us believe.

The purpose of life is to enjoy it? That most certainly is a belief in the same context Elmo is using the word.

Basically, you have your own preferences about life and are casting them in a way so as to call them "pragmatic" when they are just as arbitrary and belief based as everything else. You have arbitrarily defined a "good" and called every effort made toward achieving it pragmaticism. The problem is, your good is not substantial in any way shape or form.

Just as fighting for concepts like love, peace and freedom are human constructs, so is this so-called pragmatic, utilitarian approach. It's not any less existential in nature.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Not at all. People make their own purpose. Since nothing metaphysical can be shown to exist, any purpose based on metaphysical human constructs (Be it "god" or "inherent rights") might as well be based on nothing at all, for all its usefulness. I have no beliefs, I just have what matters to me. These aren't beliefs, anymore than my predisposition to preferring rum or vodka-based cocktails over a shot of neat whiskey is a belief. There's nothing existential about them. It's just what I like. If you get off on dying for some nebulous concept of Freedom, then whatever floats your boat. There is no such thing as altruism anyway, we ultimately do everything for selfish reasons. I just don't see how such a life or sacrifice ends up benefiting the person who does it, unless they truly believe that in so doing they are making the world a better place for those they care about afterward. Even then, thats a lot of faith to place in something so unproven--who knows, the things they fight for may make life miserable for those they care about. I suppose they'll never know, and faith is a blind thing, if they've deluded themselves with belief, they can die happy. Whatever works for them.

For the record:
Fighting for love is practical, falls under the enjoying life thing.
Fighting for peace is an oxymoron.
Fighting for Freedom, well I guess I covered that. To the extent the lack of freedom would infringe upon my ability to enjoy my life, I suppose I get it.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Not to derail or anything, but this is false, at least based upon research rather than anecdotal evidence.

I've demonstrated studies from the Canadian government self-assessing their system compared to other ODEC countries, and Canada was generally speaking in the lower 50% on average (though some areas were indeed aberrations).

Now, you all know how I feel about comparing international healthcare results, but in case you missed it one of the dozens of times I've said it: it's a flawed "science" with no true universal metrics; as such it is essentially impossible. That being said, using the commonly agreed to (if inherently flawed and biased) measures, Canadian governmental researchers have shown their own system to be what I'll refer to as mediocre.


Carry on with your esoteric "freedom" debate!

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Nothing you've just posted demonstrates that your own happiness and preferences are any more substantial than constructed abstractions humans have come up with, nor that what that the hedonist's approach is any less steeped in arbitrary belief than any other idealism.

Don't try to pass it off as "it's just what I like." "I have no beliefs, I just have what matters to me." That is completely delusional.

Additionally, if no one is truly alturistic and is indeed selfish, that means when they choose to live their life for such abstract constructs as Freedom, they are doing it because they "prefer" it, to use the word in your context. That means they're not doing anything different than you. Any noble action they take is for the same reason you act in a way you "prefer".

Ultimately, the entirety of what you are saying boils to down living for "happiness", and the reason you choose not to phrase it so, is because that makes this so-called utilitarian approach predicated on something just as nebulous as "freedom, love, peace" etc.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

I actually said that above. They're under delusions, though, that it's for some greater purpose. There is no greater purpose. If they recognized that, their noble actions would end up seeming rather pointless.



I have no problems with calling it happiness. Happiness isn't a belief though. I'd say I'd die for happiness, but it's rather pointless...you've got no chance to be happy if you're dead. I might die so other people I care about can go on to live happy lives, I suppose, ultimately because I value their happiness over my own. As I said above, I might also die "for love."

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █