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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
The law is designed so that police do more due dilligence and less no knock swat style raids.

Since the police weren't respecting citizens rights - they made it easier for citizens to enforce the respect of legal force.


It doesn't make it any easier, since you can't possibly know that the search is unlawful. A law-abiding person still can't fire at the cops, because there's no way for him to know whether or not he's breaking it. The law just randomly gets criminals who would have shot at the cops anyway off the hook. Even worse, now the cops have to worry about going down for murder every time they defend themselves against gunfire.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:24 pm 
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adorabalicious
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No but it does mean you might choose to arrest a guy when he shows up for work rather than invade his house with his two kids wife and dog at 3 am unannounced.

You might also double check the address when its decided that a swat style home entry is called for.

You know - the proper amount of due dilligence and comon sense that should have been active before but was not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:15 pm 
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This law doesn't make it legal to shoot at cops if you think their warrant is bad. Here are the key sections:

Statute wrote:
(j) Notwithstanding subsection (i), a person is not justified in using force against a public servant if:
...(4) the person reasonably believes the public servant is:
..........(A) acting lawfully; or
..........(B) engaged in the lawful execution of the public servant's official duties.

(k) A person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless:
...(1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is:
..........(A) acting unlawfully; or
..........(B) not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and
...(2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person.

Note the distinction between when the use of force is permitted and when the use of deadly force is permitted. If you don't believe the cops have a valid search and/or arrest warrant, you might be able to get away with basic physical resistance under clause (j), but unless you reasonably believe deadly force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury, as provided in clause (k), you can't shoot at them. Basically, what this law does is allow people to (i) physically resist a wrongful search/arrest without being charged with assault and (ii) shoot a cop only in the rarest, most extreme circumstance where he's beating the everliving **** out of you or someone else for absolutely no good reason.

To be honest, I'm not even sure clause (j) permits resistance if you think the cop is acting in good faith. The meaning of the distinction between "lawful execution of...official duties" under (j) and "execution of...official duties" under (k) isn't clear, assuming it was even intentional. If a cop is enforcing a warrant in good faith but the warrant was wrongfully issued, is he lawfully executing his duties or unlawfully executing them? My guess is the former, but who knows. We'll have to see what the courts do with it the first time some yahoo decks a cop with a bad warrant.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Has a plan
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I should open up a feng shui business for firearm owners. I can place things in such a way to concentrate negative people into the fatal funnel.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:48 pm 
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I'm not sure why I get surprised at how much some of you guys hate cops, but I still do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Not a F'n Boy Scout
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Aizle wrote:
I'm not sure why I get surprised at how much some of you guys hate cops, but I still do.

Please quote for me, from this thread, where anyone says anything hateful about cops.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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