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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:50 am 
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WASHINGTON — A shooter who had engaged police in a running firefight through the sprawling Washington Navy Yard was shot and killed Monday, as officials continued to search the base for a possible second shooter, law enforcement officials said.

At least four people in addition to the shooter were killed and at least eight were wounded in the rampage that began at approximately 8:20 a.m. at the Navy Yard, a huge complex of building located along Washington’s Anacostia River waterfront.

Roughly two hours later, witnesses at the base reported hearing shots fired. A senior law enforcement official said a suspect, who had been barricaded in a room in the Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters building, had been shot and killed.

Authorities continued to search buildings in the area, said the official, but no shots have been fired since the gunman was killed.

“There could be more than one shooter. That’s possible. We’re receiving conflicting reports,” said Lt. Greg Raelson, a Navy spokesman.

PHOTOS: At the scene of Navy Yard shooting

A federal law enforcement official monitoring the situation said the conflicting reports of more than one gunman are coming from a situation where a “second building” is being checked for reports of shots fired. The official said most of the shooting occurred at the Sea Systems Command building, and that tactical SWAT squads were now canvassing the second building.

“We won’t know what we have until we clear that other building,” said the source, who asked not to be identified because of the fluid situation.

In internal alerts, police described the shooter as a six foot tall black male adult, said the official.

Officials have ramped up security in all federal buildings in the Washington area. As a precaution, U.S. Capitol Police have added personnel and increase security measures in the Capitol Building.

As helicopters hovered above the base, first lowering stretchers to airlift victims to local hospitals and later circling the base in an apparent search effort, air traffic was briefly grounded at the nearby Reagan National Airport. Several area schools were put on lockdown.

Patricia Ward, a logistics management specialist, was in building 197 when the shooting started. She said she was in the lobby using the ATM machine when she heard three shots. She said she started “panicking.” She said she didn’t know what was going on. Then she heard four more shots. A security guard with a gun drawn told them to run, she said. “I just ran. I thought of my family and I just ran.” Someone had pulled the fire alarm.

Ward said that to get into the building, a person has to scan an ID card and put his or her bags through a metal detector. She added there is no metal detector for the body. She said that may be how the shooters got weapons in.

"An active shooter was reported" at roughly 8:20 a.m. inside the headquarters building, according to the Navy.

A D.C. police officer and a base security officer were among the reported victims.

About 3,000 people, both civilian and military, work at the Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters.

Navy Capt. Danny Hernandez said he was in an adjoining Navy Yard building when the shooting started.

“Everybody rushed in,” to the building where he was, and security guards locked down the facility.

“It was pretty orderly,” he said.

Rodriguez said in a cellphone conversation that the lockdown was still in effect.

"The President has been briefed several times about the unfolding situation at the Washington Navy Yard by Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Lisa Monaco and Deputy Chief of Staff Alyssa Mastromonaco," the spokesman said.

"The president directed his team to stay in touch with our federal partners, including the Navy and FBI, as well as the local officials. We urge citizens to listen to the authorities and follow directions from the first responders on site."


Listening to this on the news, as well. Presently, they are searching for a possible second shooter.

Does not (initially) seem to be a typical crazy, mass shooting incident. The WNY is a major Naval Seas Systems command where a lot of work goes on for things such as the Aegis/Standard Missile systems and other major naval projects. There are Marine guards and other significant security measures, and the description indicates that the shooter engaged them, not just contractors and unarmed personnel. This appears to be an attack on a significant national asset, unlike the Fort hood shooting. From what's being said on TV, most of the shooting took place at a very important building with a lot of senior officers and contractors.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:58 am 
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But guns are banned from being carried outside the home there!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:18 am 
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News is now saying there may be 2 additional shooters; neither is confirmed. Looking more probable though, as the suspects are being decribed as one being white, or light-skinned and another black.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Friends and acquaintances who work at that base are accounted for. My bf's coworkers are accounted for. His site (at Philly Navy Yard) went on lockdown as well.

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Last edited by Serienya on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
But guns are banned from being carried outside the home there!


Don't be dumb - this is a Federal installation.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:03 pm 
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They've updated to at least nine dead, including one of the shooters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pol ... story.html

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Thank god it wasn't a school this time.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
But guns are banned from being carried outside the home there!


Don't be dumb - this is a Federal installation.



So the guns magically teleported through DC? People on base aside from MP's are allowed firearms?

No and no.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Now 12 dead, 2 shooters still at large


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:35 pm 
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The dead shooter has been ID'd as a civilian contractor:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow ... 7381.story

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WASHINGTON — Federal officials have identified a 34-year-old man from Fort Worth, Texas, as the shooter responsible for killing 11 people at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday.

The shooter, who was killed by police during a gun battle some two hours after the initial shootings, was a government civilian contractor new to the Washington, D.C., area, said a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
But guns are banned from being carried outside the home there!


Don't be dumb - this is a Federal installation.



So the guns magically teleported through DC? People on base aside from MP's are allowed firearms?

No and no.


If they don't search vehicles when they come in...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:58 pm 
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So then the options left are:
1. Gun bans don't work to stop violence.
2. Search all traffic entering and exiting areas where laws differ.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Just because Elmo is a psychotic gun toting, federal judge murdering muppet holding a martini glass that looks like a pistol doesn't mean he's wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:27 pm 
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All traffic going in and out of a place as critical as the headquarters of Sea Systems Command should be searched. Banning private firearms inside a critical national defense facility is perfectly valid. Banning them on the public streets is idiotic.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:26 pm 
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However is it realistic? I'm not saying its not, but there is a reason they have one line going into the base for regulars with IDs that only gets searched randomly and one for strangers that gets searched all the time. It is a workplace that lots of people need to get into and out of in a timely fashion in order to get their jobs done. The Opposite of Security is Accessibility. Odds are the guy was check in with his ID, but his vehicle wasn't searched since he was one of those regulars. It will be interesting to see if we can determine what his motives were and how he got his posting/clearance despite the possibilities of being unstable.

I have on several occasions been let into my local courthouse without being searched, carrying boxes certainly large enough to hold a dismantled AR-15. That's because the people there know me and consider me not enough of a threat risk. Is that wrong?

And guns were banned on the installation. It didn't stop this guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
However is it realistic? I'm not saying its not, but there is a reason they have one line going into the base for regulars with IDs that only gets searched randomly and one for strangers that gets searched all the time. It is a workplace that lots of people need to get into and out of in a timely fashion in order to get their jobs done. The Opposite of Security is Accessibility. Odds are the guy was check in with his ID, but his vehicle wasn't searched since he was one of those regulars. It will be interesting to see if we can determine what his motives were and how he got his posting/clearance despite the possibilities of being unstable

And guns were banned on the installation. It didn't stop this guy.


A search doesn't have to be all that complex. A quick look in the trunk and the back seat instead of just an ID check gives enough additional scrutiny that someone up to no good has a significant chance of starting to show signs of stress due to being scrutinized. Yes, there has to be accessibility, but this is a very critical installation. People with legitimate business there should be well-informed of the procedures and it should not cause undue delay. Security problems that cause delays come when you have large groups of people that don't do it on a regular basis.

The purpose of a gun ban on the installation isn't to stop people like this; it's to let everyone else know that anyone other than security personnel who DOES have a gun is a threat. That works in small, contained environments; it does not work with the public at large. The exception would be in case of a specific threat; in that case everyone should be armed and they should be issued arms.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:05 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
But guns are banned from being carried outside the home there!


Don't be dumb - this is a Federal installation.



So the guns magically teleported through DC? People on base aside from MP's are allowed firearms?

No and no.


This would make a bit of sense if there weren't guns all over the facility. If anything, this is an argument that allowing guns at workplaces don't prevent workplace violence.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:05 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Just because Elmo is a psychotic gun toting, federal judge murdering muppet holding a martini glass that looks like a pistol doesn't mean he's wrong.


Except he is. Lots of employees there had firearms. People were still shot.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:00 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
Just because Elmo is a psychotic gun toting, federal judge murdering muppet holding a martini glass that looks like a pistol doesn't mean he's wrong.


Except he is. Lots of employees there had firearms. People were still shot.



Security had firearms. No one else did. Just like it is in the streets of Chicago and DC.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:44 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
Just because Elmo is a psychotic gun toting, federal judge murdering muppet holding a martini glass that looks like a pistol doesn't mean he's wrong.


Except he is. Lots of employees there had firearms. People were still shot.



Security had firearms. No one else did. Just like it is in the streets of Chicago and DC.


Are you suggesting that the densities of security between a secure military facility and the streets of Chicago are similar?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
Just because Elmo is a psychotic gun toting, federal judge murdering muppet holding a martini glass that looks like a pistol doesn't mean he's wrong.


Except he is. Lots of employees there had firearms. People were still shot.



Security had firearms. No one else did. Just like it is in the streets of Chicago and DC.


Are you suggesting that the densities of security between a secure military facility and the streets of Chicago are similar?
the police density in Chicago is probably greater, sadly...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:57 pm 
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A first person account from another board:

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8:15ish my coworker and I head to the elevator for coffee. I hear three loud bangs from the atrium on the 2nd floor. I am on the third. I thought it was the maintenance guys folding up the tables and chairs from the previous weekend's ceremony at the atrium. My coworker, a former marine, says no that sounds like gunshots. I think nothing of it and we get into the elevator. We walk through the foyer and exit. I take three steps and the emergency exit doors and people are sprinting out. One guy yells, "there is a shooter on the 4th floor. He's got a shotgun."

My buddy and I look at each other and sprint across the street and take refuge in the parking garage. I see one DC police officer with weapon in hand rush in from the ramp. A Federal Agent in a flak jacket sprint from behind. I've never witness first responders in action before. But now, I have a new found respect for anyone rushing into danger to protect others. Eventually the police start showing up and we are told to hunker down in the nearest building. The next 3 hours were right out of a video game. Armored vehicles were patrol and I witnessed three different 10-15 man patrols in full combat gear check the perimeter of all the building I could see from the lobby we sheltered in. At one point an FBi agent and another woman who seemed plugged into the containment effort asks if we had stretchers. We ended up pulling four of them from the stairwells. These are the Stryker units designed to bring people down stairs. But stretchers nevertheless. I helped out since most of the folks there were women and older than me. We turn a left and go to the aforementioned garage. I passed by a group of 15-20 FBI agents getting a briefing of the layout of the building. They were doing their final weapons checks and were moments from going in. Anyways I thought we were going to evac injured folks. There were two such injured people...and one dead body. All I saw was black boots, dark pants, dark shirt. He had a blanket covering him. Blood was seeping through the blanket from the obvious bullet wounds. First dead body I've ever seen scene. I don't think I will ever forget. I turned 180 and just walked back.

Fast forward we were all interviewed by the FBi and let go around 2:50. Three of us walked to the metro and that's how I got home. My car, keys, and phone are still in the building or inside the car. I am home now typing this.

I imagine I won't be going back to work for several days. It was described as bullet casings and holes everywhere. Not to mention the blood. There is a lot I am leaving out. I deleted half my post. I just am not sure how much I should be sharing. It's all so distant until it happens right in front of you.


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They haven't released the names of the dead yet but I know for a fact the identities of three that are work acquaintances. My desk is about 50 feet from allegedly where the gunman went down. I'll be honest, one of the things I took from this is that as cynical as we all are, I did see a lot of people stopping to help elderly or women who were literally paralyzed with fear. No one knew how many shooters there were but that never crossed our minds. If someone needed help we stopped and got them to safety inside another building. Obviously being the Navy Yard we have a lot of servicemen and retired servicemen on base. One particular retiree I remembered stepped up and put himself out there in the open shuttling people to safety out of the building. After he got back to the lobby of the other building I was talking about he broke down for about 15 minutes. We thought he was injured but his coworker backed us off and told us his PTSD is hitting him and he needs time. He muttered several times that he needs to be out there, needs to be out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:00 pm 
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I doubt that very much. There was the Marine guard contingent as well as the various law enforcement agencies, which were able to deploy within 7 minutes. Better security there would net necessarily mean significantly more personnel.

Elmo knows absolutely nothing of how to deal with a shooting situation; it's all just "rights" to him, and somehow therefore more guns must be the right answer for all situations. Out in the general public, people being allowed to carry weapons works because law enforcement cannot be everywhere and the environment is too complex and too large to have specific action plans; shootings are also not usually attempts at a massacre, but are far more often part of some other crime. In contained environments like a military facility, who is and isn't supposed to be there is known and the environment is generally just more contained. Having specific plans in place to deal with attacks can work, because the situation can be meaningfully prepared for in advance. What would not work is having a bunch of people with guns all trying to defend themselves without any information or coordination with anyone else. There would be blue-on-blue all over the place. In the aforementioned situation of "specific threat is known, weapons are issued" as part of that, you set up communication and make sure everyone knows what the situation is before you open up the armory.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:36 pm 
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I never said more guns were the answer but clearly "no guns" is not.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Well, there weren't "no guns" there, so that pretty much clears that up. In point of fact there is no "answer" to crazy. The goal is to make these incidents as rare as possible, and mitigate the damage when they do happen, and random people who don't know who the gunman is or what he's doing are more likely to start shooting at each other, or be mistaken for the gunman by security personnel than anything else.

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