The Glade 4.0

With my diabetes... I was diagnosed under my previous employers health plan. My current employer had a caveat stating that pre-existing conditions would not be covered for a year, unless we could provide a Certificate of Credible Coverage.

So my health insurance now covers my type 2 diabetes. Now... should I suddenly need to go in and have an amputation due to that pre-existing condition, my health care would cover it. But not my company provided Disability Insurance (run by a separate entity entirely).

How is that a flaw with my Health Insurance Coverage?

If people could get Obama's cock out of their mouths long enough to really hear the distinctions between the two...

Disability vs. Long Term Health Care: EHow

Disability Insurance
Health Insurance



That does not cover medical costs at all, which is the domain of... dun dun dun.... Health Insurance.

That would be like me saying we need centralized health care because my auto insurance did not pay for Gastric Bypass surgery.

It is comparing apples to USB thumbdrives.

It is not the Health Insurances job to give a **** about your rent. They pay what they can from your medical bills. It is not your disability insurances job to give a **** about your medical co-pay.

The sooner people realize that the better off they will be.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

MS

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Very well said.



No, it's incredibly relevant because... President Obama's reforms didn't address his mother's issues and concerns, and he knew that they wouldn't. She would be just as **** now as she was before, but he peddled her story around around like a used car, never disclosing that his story was a lemon. He was disingenuous, and in being so he used his deceased mother as a prop for his own political gain. Quality of character indeed. America should have asked for a **** CarFax.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Actually, it's more like saying that we need centrallized health care because your health care didn't cover the damage to your car from the fender bender that gave you whiplash. You were caused all kinds of terrible stress trying to figure out how you would afford to fix your car!

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I can get with that analogy

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

No idea - mine didnt.

You may want to get a second opinion...

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

What I get out of this discussion:

Aizle's answer is that he is a moron.

Liberals in general ignore important distinctions in argument which are fundamental and pivotal points in those arguments when they are made by someone they feel emotionally attached to.

Seriously its a completely different set of insurance. Now maybe Obama didn't lie - maybe he just doesn't really understand what he is talking about. Maybe he doesn't understand because he never took the time to investigate.

That just makes him an pompous ignorant fool who likes to speak on topics on which he is willfully misinformed. That leads back to the point of this detour - in that it as well speaks to his character (or rather lack of it).

He doesn't understand nuance in things where it doesn't fit his political agenda to understand or he does understand and he purposefully lies about his mother's dead in order to gain a political advantage.

Those are the only two possibilities. In the best light he is a fool and in the worst he is a lying manipulator whose best quality is he exposes the fools in society's midst because they flock to him.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Politician advocating for a palliative care program for cancer patients: "I know what these people and their families are going through. My mother spent the last few months of her life worrying about the costs of her palliative care instead of focusing on her health and making the most of the time she had left."

Glade conservatives: "He's a lying sack of ****! She had renal failure, not cancer! It's a completely different situation, and he's just lying to push his political agenda!"

/headshake Seriously, you guys are amazing. You honestly can't see how Obama's experience with his mother is on point in a discussion about health insurance reform? Stop thinking like such nit-picky internet debaters and just be, you know, human for a minute.

If human means ignoring logic in order to fall under the emotional appeal I hope I never become human according to your standard RD.

Humans are what we are because we have the ability to think rationally - not because we have the ability to react as emotions would cause us to.

He either knew what he was talking about in which case he is an informed liar or he didn't know what he was talking about in which case he fails to perform the diligence and research necessary before promoting grandiose change.

Which is it. Stop telling me to be human and use your brain to triumph over emotions.

Which of the two is it?

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

And your so invested in this failure of a president, you can't see the obvious lie he told to sell a huge piece of legislation to a country that didn't want it in the first place. Fanatical isn't strong enough of a discription.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

He lied. Not spin. Not being misinformed. He was her attorney. He knew the facts of the case and what he argued for. He absolutely, positively lied to the American public to sell this liberal holy Grail of legislation.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Neither. It was a personal anecdote intended to convey the emotional impact that kind of situation has on the families who have to deal with it. Nothing Obama said was untrue; the claim that he "lied" is based solely on your contention that the experience of a sick person fighting for coverage from a disability insurer is so wildly different from the experience of a sick person fighting for coverage from a health insurer that it is dishonest to tell an anecdote about the former in the context of a discussion about the latter without clearly and explicitly noting the distinction. That contention is ridiculous.

...

_________________

You're officially too far gone.

Emotion is not a justification for legislation. Its not a leg of an argument of law. Important decisions should not be based on it. Its bad form for anyone in government to seek support from an emotional point of view while also trying to muddle the rational one.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I see where you're coming from RD....

But I think you're misrepresenting the context in which he was using it. Had he used it in the sense of "I had to go through something similar, and I understand how hard it can be" that would be one thing...

But he used it as a direct anecdote for why the system needed to be changed, in the sense of "my mother suffered because of this flaw in the system, I have personal experience with pre-existing conditions and health insurance, therefore I am arguing that it should be changed".

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Don't Keep repeating this lie. Its not that the 'country didn't want it' Even two years later, its about 50/50. What you mean is "I don't want", but its disingenuous to claim that the 'country didn't want it' -- at the time, a majority did.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146729/One-Y ... e-Law.aspx

Did his proposed solution tend to the problems his mother was having?

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I disagree. Emotion is an important and inescapable element of the justification for legislation. Emotion helps determine what our goals are; rationality helps determine the best way to achieve them. True, sometimes emotion can be destructive, and destructive emotions may lead to destructive legislation, but that's not an argument against all emotion - we needn't throw the baby out with the bath water. And truthfully, I'm not sure you actually disagree. After all, the desire for personal liberty is an emotion, and the system of governance that espoused both the possibility and the benefits of an emotionless approach to goverment is the one you most oppose - Communism.

Not repeating a lie(unlike the pesident).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/127382/Ameri ... table.aspx

Most viewed it as a bad thing.

And we have many polls stating most folks would like to see it repealed.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

One of the few, if only things I will give Obama credit for, is the devotion he has in his followers, to the end, teeth barred into the final argument. His way or the high way! With him against his enemies. Very few politicians inspire that kind of loyalty. I am a hard core RP supporter and I argue with points and decisions. Blind loyalty is incredible and scary to witness.

_________________
"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I take your point, NephyrS, but I think the latter interpretation requires a presumption of bad faith, and even then, calling it a lie would be making a mountain out of a molehill, in my opinion. In my view, it's like listening to a veteran advocating for some change in our policy toward Afghanistan and then calling him a liar because he tells a personal anecdote about what it felt like to be in combat without pausing to note that he served in Iraq.

You don't read many liberal commentators do you?

I ask again.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Since it's impossible to conclusively say what form of health care is "better," all health care arguments that try to claim that their way is better are emotional appeals.