The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:19 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 214 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:19 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Wwen wrote:
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

I read history books, including those that aren't kosher according to mainstream pedagogy? I read books written by people outside of the American cultural and socio-historical milieu? Lots of reasons why I have different opinions; lots of reasons why I hold to facts not supported by American mythology; none of which, however, change the deep seated desire for the Cherry Tree to be a reality; the 3 pennies to actually have happened; or Thomas Jefferson not to have had an ongoing affair with a slave girl.

But that's neither here nor there, as you continue to demonstrate the point I made before: even your vaunted adherence to individualism is a product of social conditioning. The notion that you think I must be special or unique or think myself outside the system belies that particular social value in your world view. And that reality opens up a whole other can of worms involving American Exceptionalism.


Then why do you come down from the mountaintop to give fire to the mortals? Don't you know your innards are in danger?


More like pushing a giant boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
DFK! wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Not a bit. Did I ask you a bunch of questions before I even stated my point? Nope. So you're wrong. When you guys didn't get my point, did I clarify? Yep, so you're wrong.


"You have to speak to your reader/listener's level. But don't ask questions to ascertain their knowledge level, 'cause then you're a dick."


Of course you will miss from time to time, which is why you sometimes need to clarify.

Quote:
Furthermore, you didn't clarify, you basically just kept shitting on everyone for not understanding you or for being wrong. Just because you want to re-write board history doesn't mean I'm going to go along with it. You regularly berate anyone who doesn't lower the intelligence of their dialogue to the lowest common denominator (a truly stupid theory, by the way), yet fail to hold yourself to the same standard. It's blatant hypocrisy.


Nope. I clarified to the best of my ability for pages and pages. So, you are wrong again.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:07 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Lex:

I said nothing about complexity. I mentioned a particular facet of two dialects in comparison with each other.

Aizle:

Good deduction. So, why is it we consider one of the following statements ignorant (at best) and stupid (as a general rule)?
Quote:
She done gone to the store.

Quote:
She went to the store.


In fact, which one of those statements is more specific?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
In my mind they are the same as far as being specific. Both indicate where she went, and that it happened in the past.

Speaking for myself, the only thing I would assume from the first statement is they are uneducated.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:15 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

The second statement is actually less specific than the first. In African American Vernacular English (Ebonics), there are variances in the past-tense verb structure. The statement, "She done went to the store," is temporally specific and indicates a very recent, but past event. "She went to the store," however, merely indicates prior to now.

And why would you assume the first statement indicates a lack of education?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
She done gone to the store indicates that the action is completed. It's a past perfect construction, if one were to deconstruct that dialect more rigorously than most who speak it subconsciously probably do.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

The second statement is actually less specific than the first. In African American Vernacular English (Ebonics), there are variances in the past-tense verb structure. The statement, "She done went to the store," is temporally specific and indicates a very recent, but past event. "She went to the store," however, merely indicates prior to now.

And why would you assume the first statement indicates a lack of education?


"She done went to the store" is not the same as the example.

Only because most people who are highly educated don't speak like that. Not saying there aren't exceptions, but it would be an assumption I'd have until additional data changed my opinion.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:27 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

Eh, I made a typo. It happens.

That said, Ebonics doesn't conform to your expectations of "educated" speech. Why is that? What's the dividing line? What creates your expectation of educated speech? Ebonics is verbally more precise and regular than American Edited English. It is, structurally speaking, a more comprehensive dialect than what you expect. The logic is more uniform; the rules less subject to exceptions.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Apparently, I'm not exposed to Ebonics enough, and need to take a class.

As for education.. see, this is like law, right? Create a bunch of exceptions and grandfathered stuff to make a barrier to entry, and you make yourself seem educated? English is considered more educated because it requires you to know all the irregularities!

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
No worries, just making sure I wasn't missing something.

I'm basing those expectations on my understanding of the current educational practices in the majority of the US. Obviously I'm making other assumptions here as well, like the person speaking is living in the US, probably raised here, etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:36 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

Ok, and what's the dividing line between the two as far as "educated" or "not educated" based on initial exposure?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
I don't understand the question. You mean where is the line drawn between educated and uneducated?


Last edited by Aizle on Thu May 06, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:52 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

"Ebonics" and "American Edited English".

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:55 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Doesn't She done went to the store have two verbs? Went is the action whereas she didn't "do" anything?

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Well if I'm understanding the question correctly, I would say that neither is an absolute indicator of being educated or not. As I already said, I would make an assumption that someone speaking "Ebonics" was uneducated, for the reasons I've already stated. I would not, however assume that someone speaking "American Edited English" was educated, unless their particular use of it hinted at it.

For example, even prior to learning any of your education and work background, it was obvious that you were fairly educated because of how you use language.

As with everything, use of language is just a data point.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Hopwin wrote:
Doesn't She done went to the store have two verbs? Went is the action whereas she didn't "do" anything?

In English, we call it a helping verb. An easy example is will. "I will run to the park today." Will and run are both verbs individually, but their combined construction is the future tense of "to run."

Other common English examples are the various forms of the verbs "to be" and "to have."

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:12 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

Really? How I use language indicates education? Nothing in my speech is particularly academic or beyond normal idiom. In fact, it generally lacks idiom regardless of the language I am speaking or writing. And that's a curious thing in itself: what does the lack of idiom say about sometimes speech? What data points are you compiling? Dialect isn't exactly binary, so why would or does it indicate anything about anyone?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Sure, use of language can infer education. And depending on the post, some of your speech here is very academic. Others not as much, but all of it is fairly meticulous. It has been my experience that those who have a very good handle on language are also typically educated beyond the high school level.

Idioms can sometimes be indicative of something, depending on how common the idiom is. I usually find that lack of idiom is also related to someone who is educated, as it generally takes some concious thought (or lots of practice) to not use idioms regularly.

Dialect doesn't really indicate anything necessarily, other than a location that someone is from, which perhaps provides insight into what their social environment may have been like growing up.

As for what data points I'm compiling, that's a hard question for me to answer. It really depends on the situation. Here on the forums, all I really have to go on are how someone posts (language, phrasing, punctuation, spelling, specific content), profile information and history of posts. In real life, obviously there are many more visual and vocal cues that one can add to the mix. Posture, vocal inflection, body language, dress, etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Facebook in the news
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

Really? How I use language indicates education? Nothing in my speech is particularly academic or beyond normal idiom.


Oh, come on, Khross. I get what you are saying, but they ain't nobody nowheres that done say "idiom" dat ain't gone to school.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:39 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
Truth.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:03 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
I concur. Khross I would assume that the group of people you associate (hang) with may toss around words such as idiom but far and away it is rather uncommon word in most social-circles' lexicons.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:13 pm 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Bat Country
Hopwin wrote:
I concur. Khross I would assume that the group of people you associate (hang) with may toss around words such as idiom but far and away it is rather uncommon word in most social-circles' lexicons.


I agree. No one I work with in the military says "idiom" or would know what it means. I've liked to read since I was young, so I picked up more words, but I'm still mostly uneducated by my estimate. People tend to assume a lot from how one speaks.

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:11 am 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Wwen wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
I concur. Khross I would assume that the group of people you associate (hang) with may toss around words such as idiom but far and away it is rather uncommon word in most social-circles' lexicons.


I agree. No one I work with in the military says "idiom" or would know what it means. I've liked to read since I was young, so I picked up more words, but I'm still mostly uneducated by my estimate. People tend to assume a lot from how one speaks.


I'd be willing to bet, though, that you have at least a few that don't like it when you use idioms because "Big sarge be dissin' on me."

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Educated = having a large vocabulary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:44 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Lex Luthor wrote:
Educated = having a large vocabulary

No it means having a different vocabulary. There are tons of slang phrases that are used by less educated demographics that I imagine would offset the "big fancy book-learning words" utilized by more educated members of society.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 214 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 166 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group