The Glade 4.0

I never claimed it was exclusively "a Jew thing." And I'm not well-read on female circumcision. Is it illegal?

Every time male circumcision comes up, people justify it by saying it improves hygiene. This has no bearing on whether it is or is not a form of genital mutilation. Moreover, given the number of times a male handles his penis over the course of any particular day, it's a shaky argument in support of male circumcision. To whit:

You can get *** cheese, too, not to mention dingleberries. That's why you wipe your ***. Nobody advocates having your butt cheeks surgically removed at birth. Just like you clean your *** after taking a dump, you can clean your dick after you take a leak.

My objection here is to the rather cavalier attitude regarding the double standard. When it's a little boy getting his foreskin snipped off, it's socially acceptable and we'll start counting off a list of dubious reasons to justify the procedure. Take that little baby boy off the surgical table and replace him with his twin sister, and suddenly it's a great crime against women everywhere. Not only that, but if you wait twenty years until his twin sister is grown up and can give consent to the procedure, it's still a vicious crime committed to brutally oppress women.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

In a nutshell, they remove the clitorus and the clitoral hood. It basically makes sex very painful for most women, and removes their ability to have an orgasm.

Let me get this right...

Suck em out of the vagoo and jam scissors in em is ok. Nip the tip off their penis- a travesty.

Id explode in that state. No wonder they ban everything.

So is female circumcision really any worse than male circumcision? That's a fantastic question. I wish I had enough data to answer that. One is socially acceptable, while the other is cause for cries of brutal oppression.

As you say, it's difficult to make an apples to apples comparison because most female circumcision is done in Third World countries under ridiculously unsafe and unsanitary conditions (e.g. performed on 10-year old girls with no anesthetic, unsterilized implements, and little or no medical follow-up to prevent/treat infection). There are also wide variations in the amount and nature of damage done to the girls' genitalia depending on the particular tradition/culture involved. So, while there's perhaps an interesting theoretical discussion to be had comparing male circumcision in the modern US to female circumcision under similar conditions, that's not the reality of female circumcision. The reason people get much more worked about the latter is because in the real world, the actual practice is much, much, much worse than the former.

There is a bit of misinformation in this post. Numerous studies have shown that there is a significant minority of women who report the ability to achieve orgasm purely through vaginal stimulation. I have seen reported statistics as low as 6% and as high as 13%. This is further compounded by the fact that the clitoris is akin to an iceberg. An overwhelming majority of clitoral tissue (in excess of 75%) is buried and surrounds part of the vaginal canal. Women who report the ability to orgasm without clitoral stimulation may possibly be stimulating the regions of the clitoris that are not readily visible (and are therefore still experiencing clitoral orgasm). At the same time, how much of that tissue is being removed through female circumcision? It's not like there's a single standardized procedure.

The female orgasm is not a well understood phenomenon to begin with. The claim that female circumcision removes the ability to orgasm has another significant problem: There is not a preponderance of data. The procedure is carried out primarily in third world countries where women are not permitted to speak openly to strangers. Those who do are speaking from experience with their husbands, who are probably not the type of gentlemen that are concerned with getting their female companions off in bed.

Then there's the claim that the removal of the clitoris makes sex painful. There is an untested claim if ever there was one. Remember, we are speaking of cultures where beating your wife is permissible. Is sex painful for them because of the removal of their clitoral tissue, or because they're being raped? Good luck answering that question. However, given the number of people who engage in anal sex and enjoy it, I can't readily accept the premise that the lack of a clit automatically makes "insert tab A into slot B" painful.

You can't test these things very well here in the United States using the scientific method, because women aren't exactly lining up to have clitoridectomies. Even if they could achieve orgasm without it, why would women want to give up their clts? That would be like if I could have an orgasm just by having my balls played with, and someone asked if I'd be willing to have my penis removed.

So is female circumcision really any worse than male circumcision? That's a fantastic question. I wish I had enough data to answer that. One is socially acceptable, while the other is cause for cries of brutal oppression.

Procedures: World Health Organization categorization

FGC consists of several distinct procedures. Their severity is often viewed as dependent on how much genital tissue is cut away. The WHO—which uses the term Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)—divides the procedure into four major types[24] (see Diagram 1), although there is some debate as to whether all common forms of FGM fit into these four categories, as well as issues with the reliability of reported data.[25]


Diagram 1:This image shows the different types of FGM and how they differ to the uncircumcised female anatomy.
[edit]Type I
The WHO defines Type I FGM as the partial or total removal of the clitoris (clitoridectomy) and/or the prepuce (clitoral hood); see Diagram 1B. When it is important to distinguish between the variations of Type I cutting, the following subdivisions are proposed: Type Ia, removal of the clitoral hood or prepuce only (which some view as analogous to male circumcision and thus more acceptable); Type Ib, removal of the clitoris with the prepuce.[24] In the context of women who seek out labiaplasty, there is disagreement among doctors as to whether to remove the clitoral hood in some cases to enhance sexuality or whether this is too likely to lead to scarring and other problems.[26]
[edit]Type II
The WHO's definition of Type II FGM is "partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, with or without excision of the labia majora. When it is important to distinguish between the major variations that have been documented, the following subdivisions are proposed: Type IIa, removal of the labia minora only; Type IIb, partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia minora; Type IIc, partial or total removal of the clitoris, the labia minora and the labia majora.[24]
[edit]Type III: infibulation with excision
The WHO defines Type III FGM as narrowing of the vaginal orifice with creation of a covering seal by cutting and repositioning the labia minora and/or the labia majora, with or without excision of the clitoris (infibulation)."[1] It is the most extensive form of FGM, and accounts for about 10% of all FGM procedures described from Africa.[27] Infibulation is also known as "pharaonic circumcision".[28]
In a study of infibulation in the Horn of Africa, Pieters observed that the procedure involves extensive tissue removal of the external genitalia, including all of the labia minora and the inside of the labia majora. The labia majora are then held together using thorns or stitching. In some cases the girl's legs have been tied together for two to six weeks, to prevent her from moving and to allow the healing of the two sides of the vulva. Nothing remains but the walls of flesh from the pubis down to the anus, with the exception of an opening at the inferior portion of the vulva to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass through; see Diagram 1D. Generally, a practitioner recognized as having the necessary skill carries out this procedure, and a local anesthetic is used. However, when carried out "in the bush", infibulation is often performed by an elderly matron or midwife of the village, without sterile procedure or anesthesia.[29]
A reverse infibulation can be performed to allow for sexual intercourse or when undergoing labor, or by female relatives, whose responsibility it is to inspect the wound every few weeks and open it some more if necessary. During childbirth, the enlargement is too small to allow vaginal delivery, and so the infibulation is opened completely and may be restored after delivery. Again, the legs are sometimes tied together to allow the wound to heal. When childbirth takes place in a hospital, the surgeons may preserve the infibulation by enlarging the vagina with deep episiotomies. Afterwards, the patient may insist that her vulva be closed again.[29]
Women who have been infibulated face a lot of difficulty in delivering children, especially if the infibulation is not undone beforehand, which often results in severe tearing of the infibulated area, or fetal death if the birth canal is not cleared (Toubia, 1995). The risk of severe physical, and psychological complications is more highly associated with women who have undergone infibulations as opposed to one of the lesser forms of FGM. Although there is little research on the psychological side effects of FGM, many women feel great pressure to conform to the norms set out by their community, and suffer from anxiety and depression as a result (Toubia, 1995). "There is also a higher rate of post-traumatic stress disorder in circumcised females" (Nicoletti, 2007, p. 2). [30] [31]
A five-year study of 300 women and 100 men in Sudan found that "sexual desire, pleasure, and orgasm are experienced by the majority (nearly 90%) of women who have been subjected to this extreme sexual mutilation, in spite of their being culturally bound to hide these experiences."[32]
[edit]Type IV: other types
There are other forms of FGM, collectively referred to as Type IV, that may not involve tissue removal. The WHO defines Type IV FGM as "all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, for example, pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterization."[24] This includes a diverse range of practices, such as pricking the clitoris with needles, burning or scarring the genitals as well as ripping or tearing of the vagina.[24] Type IV is found primarily among isolated ethnic groups as well as in combination with other types.[citation needed]
[edit]

Key facts

Female genital mutilation (FGM) includes procedures that intentionally alter or injure female genital organs for non-medical reasons.
The procedure has no health benefits for girls and women.
Procedures can cause severe bleeding and problems urinating, and later, potential childbirth complications and newborn deaths.
An estimated 100 to 140 million girls and women worldwide are currently living with the consequences of FGM.
It is mostly carried out on young girls sometime between infancy and age 15 years.
In Africa an estimated 92 million girls from 10 years of age and above have undergone FGM.
FGM is internationally recognized as a violation of the human rights of girls and women.
Female genital mutilation (FGM) comprises all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.

The practice is mostly carried out by traditional circumcisers, who often play other central roles in communities, such as attending childbirths. Increasingly, however, FGM is being performed by health care providers.

FGM is recognized internationally as a violation of the human rights of girls and women. It reflects deep-rooted inequality between the sexes, and constitutes an extreme form of discrimination against women. It is nearly always carried out on minors and is a violation of the rights of children. The practice also violates a person's rights to health, security and physical integrity, the right to be free from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, and the right to life when the procedure results in death.

Procedures
Female genital mutilation is classified into four major types.

Clitoridectomy: partial or total removal of the clitoris (a small, sensitive and erectile part of the female genitals) and, in very rare cases, only the prepuce (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoris).
Excision: partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, with or without excision of the labia majora (the labia are "the lips" that surround the vagina).
Infibulation: narrowing of the vaginal opening through the creation of a covering seal. The seal is formed by cutting and repositioning the inner, or outer, labia, with or without removal of the clitoris.
Other: all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, e.g. pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterizing the genital area.
No health benefits, only harm
FGM has no health benefits, and it harms girls and women in many ways. It involves removing and damaging healthy and normal female genital tissue, and interferes with the natural functions of girls' and women's bodies.

Immediate complications can include severe pain, shock, haemorrhage (bleeding), tetanus or sepsis (bacterial infection), urine retention, open sores in the genital region and injury to nearby genital tissue.

Long-term consequences can include:

recurrent bladder and urinary tract infections;
cysts;
infertility;
an increased risk of childbirth complications and newborn deaths;
the need for later surgeries. For example, the FGM procedure that seals or narrows a vaginal opening (type 3 above) needs to be cut open later to allow for sexual intercourse and childbirth. Sometimes it is stitched again several times, including after childbirth, hence the woman goes through repeated opening and closing procedures, further increasing and repeated both immediate and long-term risks.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Let the record show: LK really knows vaginas.

I'm of the opinion that exposure to vaginas causes insanity. Because of their prolonged exposure, 100% of all women are insane. The smaller % of men who have regular exposure to a vagina are also adversely affected, as they become more prone to involve themselves in crazy behavior such as beating, downing, or killing the vagina owner.

Ah, abortion. You are in the wrong thread:

http://gladerebooted.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5886

Let the record show: LK really knows vaginas.

I'm of the opinion that exposure to vaginas causes insanity. Because of their prolonged exposure, 100% of all women are insane. The smaller % of men who have regular exposure to a vagina are also adversely affected, as they become more prone to involve themselves in crazy behavior such as beating, downing, or killing the vagina owner.

So, gay men are the sanest among us?

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

So, gay men are the sanest among us?

On to the happy meals... take all kid menu stuff off. Offer a smaller meal for a reduced price.