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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:24 am 
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Today is a deluge.

New York State Senate passes bill making it a felony to "harass" a police officer.

(In fairness: It should be noted that this law requires 'physical contact')


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Bill would make annoying a cop a crime

Annoyance would have to accompany physical contact

Updated: Wednesday, 05 Jun 2013, 9:10 PM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 05 Jun 2013, 2:38 PM EDT



ALBANY, N.Y. (WIVB) - A bill currently making its way through the State Legislature would make it a crime to annoy a police officer, a move that could have far reaching consequences.

The State Senate passed the bill Wednesday that makes it felony to "harass, annoy, threaten or alarm" an on duty police officer by subjecting them to any physical contact.

A press release from the NYS Senate originally stated, "The bill (S.2402), sponsored by Senator Joe Griffo (R-C-I, Rome) would make it a felony to harass, annoy, or threaten a police officer while on duty." However, as the bill is written, a person would be guilty of aggravated harassment of a police officer if he or she subjected that officer to physical contact with the intent to "harass, annoy, threaten or alarm" that officer.

The bill was sponsored by local Senators Pat Gallivan, George Maziarz and Michael Ranzenhofer, as well as Senator Joe Griffo (R) of Rome.

Griffo stated, "Police officers who risk their lives every day in our cities and on our highways deserve every possible protection, and those who treat them with disrespect, harass them and create situations that can lead to injuries deserve to pay a price for their actions."

Anyone found guilty under the bill, should it become law, could face up to four years in prison.

The bill is now on its way to the State Assembly.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:55 am 
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Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:07 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.


I disagree to the extent that "tyranny of the bureaucracy" is a very real problem.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:50 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.


Dollars to doughnuts that this gets used just like disorderly conduct charges. When the cops got nothin just use a charge thats their word vs the soon to be arrested person.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:53 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.


Dollars to doughnuts that this gets used just like disorderly conduct charges. When the cops got nothin just use a charge thats their word vs the soon to be arrested person.


That too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:53 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.

The difference is in the penalty. This is basically the same as Harassment in the 2nd Degree under existing NY law (NY Penal Law, S 240.26), which is a simple "violation" (which is even lower than a misdemeanor), meaning the maximum sentence is 15 days. The new law is a "Class E felony", meaning the minimum sentence is 3 years and the maximum is 4 years. On top of that, of course, are all the long-term effects of having a felony on your record instead of just a violation.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:30 am 
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Jeez. This "stop and frisk" crap is really getting out of hand:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:54 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
TheRiov wrote:
Uh. Harassing, annoying, threatening or alarming ANYONE while you're touching them, cop or not, on duty or not should be (and is, as far as I know) a crime. This doesn't really qualify as tyranny. This is more about a politician reacting to some news story and wanting to make some statement.

Granted its adding a law that is already covered by other laws, its its not really tyranny--just political showboating.

The difference is in the penalty. This is basically the same as Harassment in the 2nd Degree under existing NY law (NY Penal Law, S 240.26), which is a simple "violation" (which is even lower than a misdemeanor), meaning the maximum sentence is 15 days. The new law is a "Class E felony", meaning the minimum sentence is 3 years and the maximum is 4 years. On top of that, of course, are all the long-term effects of having a felony on your record instead of just a violation.


The difference is also in that this law requires actual physical contact to occur.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Which in reality means the officer has to claim physical contact occurs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Which in reality means the officer has to claim physical contact occurs.


Obviously. If the officer didn't claim physical contact occurred, the law wouldn't be violated.

If you mean "in reality the officer just has to say someone touched him and they're automatically guilty" no, it's not like that, nor is that how disorderly conduct works. That's pure fantasy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Which in reality means the officer has to claim physical contact occurs.
Obviously. If the officer didn't claim physical contact occurred, the law wouldn't be violated.

If you mean "in reality the officer just has to say someone touched him and they're automatically guilty" no, it's not like that, nor is that how disorderly conduct works. That's pure fantasy.
I'm not sure what planet you are from anymore, Diamondeye, because it's obviously not Earth. Maybe it's simply occupational bias, but you have a very rose colored opinion of law enforcement agents, agencies, and practices in this country.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I'm not sure what planet you are from anymore, Diamondeye, because it's obviously not Earth. Maybe it's simply occupational bias, but you have a very rose colored opinion of law enforcement agents, agencies, and practices in this country.


I see you're still appealing to motive and claiming "bias" is "viewpoints other than Khross's". Maybe if you haven't been displaying a total inability to discuss facts or viewpoints without personalizing them for years on end now we could go somewhere, but since once again you simply think anyone who doesn't see things your way has something wrong with them, there's no point in even trying to talk to you.

You do this to Aizle, RD, and others as well, so I don't expect to get any different treatment. All you're doing is trying to get a majority dogpile going, since you're in a place where your fringe viewpoint is actually common.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
All you're doing is trying to get a majority dogpile going, since you're in a place where your fringe viewpoint is actually common.


If by "fringe" you mean roughly 1 in 5 to 1 in 3 people (depending upon what studies/polls you look at)in this country NOT having much confidence in law enforcement, then sure. That's fringe.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:41 pm 
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I don't know a single person that truly trusts law enforcement officers.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:46 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
All you're doing is trying to get a majority dogpile going, since you're in a place where your fringe viewpoint is actually common.


If by "fringe" you mean roughly 1 in 5 to 1 in 3 people (depending upon what studies/polls you look at)in this country NOT having much confidence in law enforcement, then sure. That's fringe.


I haven't seen any polls to that effect. In fact, the last Gallup poll I saw indicated only about 11% had "not much confidence." Furthermore, merely "not having much confidence" is not (by itself) what makes his ideas, or the average here fringe. It's the insistence on looking at situations, reading into it things that aren't there or making the worst possible assumptions for law enforcement, then using that to reinforce the same views.

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Last edited by Diamondeye on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I don't know a single person that truly trusts law enforcement officers.


What do you mean by "truely trusts law enforcement officers"? If you mean "trusts every single one of them implicitly" then that's unsurprising; no one does that. Your personal circle of friends, however, is not exactly a representative sample. Then there's the simple fact that a great many people don't trust law enforcement simply because they want it done a different way, when they have no idea what the job entails, or how the law works. Or they're criminals. Criminals tend not to trust or have confidence in law enforcment.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:55 pm 
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I mean to say that the majority of people I know do not look at officers not as protectors of the people or upholders of the peace. They do not trust them to protect and serve. Instead they look at them as people who could potentially be power hungry, act as bullies, or ruin your day/week/month/life on a whim.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Really? I'm far more suspicious of people in places of power in business or government than people who work in law enforcement.


Last edited by TheRiov on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:01 pm 
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It'd be harder for Donald Trump to **** my day up than it would be for a police officer of any kind.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Ahh.. potentially. Yes, they potentially can do that. Some, in fact, do. However, if you view all of them that way, and refuse to see any of them, especially the ones you know nothing about, as honest public servants until proven otherwise, then the lack of confidence is the fault of the person having it. That's just bigotry. You're viewing them as a criminal for no reason other than that some members of their group turn out to be criminals... ironically, exactly what you want law enforcment not to do.

It does not help that people in this country have a very hard time grasping that their personal disapproval of particular police conduct does not make it illegal, immoral, or wrong. Maybe it is, but we have courts for a reason. Everyone, including the police, is entitled to a fair hearing. Part of that is telling people who think their personal opinion is infallible "no, that is not wrong no matter how outraged you are. Now shut your ignorant trap."

That's an important part of what's going on the Treyvon Martin case, where we can see the phenomenon when its applied to someone who is not a cop. No matter how outraged black people are, Zimmerman is entitled to fair treatment, and if he's found not guilty, blacks and others outraged at the situation will simply have to suck it down.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
It'd be harder for Donald Trump to **** my day up than it would be for a police officer of any kind.


So what? Do you think anyone that can **** your day up is inherently untrustworthy? There are a lot of people that can do that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Khross wrote:
I'm not sure what planet you are from anymore, Diamondeye, because it's obviously not Earth. Maybe it's simply occupational bias, but you have a very rose colored opinion of law enforcement agents, agencies, and practices in this country.

We have a word for that, although I believe the polite term is to state that one smells bacon.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
So what? Do you think anyone that can **** your day up is inherently untrustworthy? There are a lot of people that can do that.


Never seen a wall street executive taze someone unjustly. For every video on YouTube or LiveLeaks of police doing wrong, there are probably 5 other equally jacked-up incidents that didn't get recorded. History has shown us that power can lead to corruption, and the more people of a certain group you put into power, the higher the probability of corruption becomes. It's a numbers game, and police are everywhere. Don't take it personally, I'm sure you're a swell fellow.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
We have a word for that, although I believe the polite term is to state that one smells bacon.


You're really cool. Keep it up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
So what? Do you think anyone that can **** your day up is inherently untrustworthy? There are a lot of people that can do that.


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Never seen a wall street executive taze someone unjustly.


So what? I wasn't even referring to wall street executives; I was referring to the plethora of people that can easily kick your ***. That still doesn't change the fact that distrusting someone because of what they can do, or because of what some members of their group do, is still just bigotry.

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For every video on YouTube or LiveLeaks of police doing wrong, there are probably 5 other equally jacked-up incidents that didn't get recorded.


For every 5 such videos, 4.5 of them don't actually show anything wrong; they either show the police acting within the law and people just not liking it, or they show an ambiguous situation and people jumping to conclusions - a glade specialty.

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History has shown us that power can lead to corruption, and the more people of a certain group you put into power, the higher the probability of corruption becomes.


"History has shown power can lead to corruption" is so vague as to be worthless. In many cases, the person was just corrupt regardless and somehow gained power.

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It's a numbers game, and police are everywhere. Don't take it personally, I'm sure you're a swell fellow.


This is a highly underpoliced country, overall. Police are only everywhere in urban areas where coincidentally, most of the crime is. Imagine that.

I'm not taking anything personally. Your arguments are just essentially "it's potentially possible for cops to do something I don't like, so I don't trust them." It just doesn't make any sense. I'm sure its within your intellectual capabilities to understand that your position is far from so ironclad that people can only disagree for emotional and personal reasons. Really. I know you're a swell guy too. Don't go down that road; it only looks silly and petty.

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