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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:32 am 
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You want to know what's really wrong with healthcare? It's the fact that the companies that supply doctors with drugs and equipment are engaging in an absurd amount of graft. Like I've posted before, I work in a hospital lab. Here's a few examples:

This is a picture I took at work. These are the metal racks we use to load specimens onto the processor. It's exactly what it looks like, metal wire formed into that shape.

http://i.imgur.com/tvNqIL2.jpg

These racks cost $800 apiece. Eight hundred dollars. I'm no metallurgist, but if that costs more than $8 to manufacture I'd be absolutely shocked.

We also have several automated stainers to do various stains. The reagents for these cost astronomical amounts of money. For example, the "Warthin-Starry" staining kits cost $595 apiece. For $595, we get 100ml each of three aqueous solutions:

1. 1% silver nitrate
2. 0.15% hydroquinone
3. Agarose gel

These three things are available to the public. You can go on Sigma-Aldrich's website and check for yourself what they cost, but I can tell you right now that $595 is a markup of over twenty-thousand percent. I picked this stain because it's over 100 years old and there's no chance it's proprietary at this point. Most of the staining solutions for the automated stainers are marked up between 5,000-30,000% compared to the prices on chemical websites where they advertise the same reagents to sell to the public. The IHC reagents cost more than their weight in platinum.

Other stuff that jumped out at me:

One case (8 gallons) of isopropyl alcohol - $289.
4 gallons of 100% denatured ethanol - $309.
5kg of paraffin wax (the same stuff your candles are made out of) - $125
One roll of slide labels to stick on slides for the automated stainer - $80 for 500 labels. Do you pay 16 cents per post-it? Because we do.

EDIT: Damn that's a big picture, I'll just link to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:03 am 
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Based on existing government appropriation (eg. the Six Billion Dollar Website Failure and "Golden Toilet Seats") you expect the government can/will improve this?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:51 am 
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Xequecal:

There's probably about $60 worth of materials in that little basket. Stainless steel wire with a molybdenum and vanadium surface coating to limit reactivity and temper the relatively thin wires against autoclave level temperatures isn't particularly cheap. There's probably a good $200-300 in additional production costs -- robotic welders aren't cheap and that company doesn't produce as much from those baskets as GM produces real profit from cars. You have straight labor, including one welder and probably an hour of his time per basket making sure the robo-welds past inspection and hand welding any spots it missed (That's a good $80). I'd suspect actual cost of delivery somewhere in the $500 range for a single basket, and that was before the medical equipment tariff on domestically produced medical supplies the ACA implemented.

As a general rule, people have no idea how much something actually costs to produce, particularly if its some mission critical commodity item used in someone else's production process.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:35 pm 
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So, CBS is now saying that the president knew the web site was crap 6 months before the rollout, contrary to what the president has said.

Looks like something finally has legs. Too bad Benghazi fell through the cracks and the CIC wasn't held accountable.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:24 pm 
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So to give a brief **** you to all of the supporters of the ACA...

the mother of my eldest; working for the same company for 15 years... not making a ton of money (less than 14 an hour), but had decent cost to benefit ratio on her health benefits... just had her employer jack up the cost to the employees between 2 to 3 times the cost, what was costing $240 a month is now costing $618 a month.

So these people who are getting hurt are not rich people, they are not people who have a means to really offset the costs. It is people who are scraping right around the poverty level trying to do well for themselves who are going to be forced into government reliance.

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Last edited by darksiege on Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:26 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
So to give a brief **** you to all of the supporters of the ACA...

the mother of my eldest; working for the same company for 15 years... not making a ton of money (less than 14 an hour), but had decent cost to benefit ratio on her health benefits... just had her employer jack up the cost to the employees between 2 to 3 times the cost, what was costing between $300-400 a month is not costing $618 a month.

So these people who are getting hurt are not rich people, they are not people who have a means to really offset the costs. It is people who are scraping right around the poverty level trying to do well for themselves who are going to be forced into government reliance.


Hands up anyone who thought this exact thing wouldn't happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Hands up anyone who thought this exact thing wouldn't happen.


I honestly figured it would be people like you and I getting screwed Moose.

I hope this Seedy Tijuana Donkey Show Burro Dick Swallowing Lame Duck **** gets the historical recognition he deserves.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Müs wrote:
darksiege wrote:
So to give a brief **** you to all of the supporters of the ACA...

the mother of my eldest; working for the same company for 15 years... not making a ton of money (less than 14 an hour), but had decent cost to benefit ratio on her health benefits... just had her employer jack up the cost to the employees between 2 to 3 times the cost, what was costing between $300-400 a month is not costing $618 a month.

So these people who are getting hurt are not rich people, they are not people who have a means to really offset the costs. It is people who are scraping right around the poverty level trying to do well for themselves who are going to be forced into government reliance.


Hands up anyone who thought this exact thing wouldn't happen.


/hand

TBH, I didn't think it would be quite this deliciously thorough in screwing everybody over. I figured it would be people like most of the posters here, while the less well off would get their healthcare at low rates and get to pretend the "rich" were footing the bill.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Yeah I am with DE, I didn't think PPACA would be an endless, universal, lube-free ass-bugger fest. Figured it'd be the middle class only.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:15 am 
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It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:12 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.

And her company pockets the savings on paying for the "benefits" they're offering her, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:25 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.

And her company pockets the savings on paying for the "benefits" they're offering her, right?


Sure, though I don't know how that plays into the whole "if you have 50+ employees, you need to offer an affordable plan" thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.

And her company pockets the savings on paying for the "benefits" they're offering her, right?


Sure, though I don't know how that plays into the whole "if you have 50+ employees, you need to offer an affordable plan" thing.

Just because a plan is deemed affordable, doesn't mean the employee can afford it. That's the situation here, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Ex girlfriend. I have yet to Marry (go figure, hehe) and she works for a LARGE company that has been providing awesome benefits prior to now.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.

And her company pockets the savings on paying for the "benefits" they're offering her, right?


Sure, though I don't know how that plays into the whole "if you have 50+ employees, you need to offer an affordable plan" thing.

Just because a plan is deemed affordable, doesn't mean the employee can afford it. That's the situation here, right?


Seems to be. Though, again, I don't know, but can only assume that company plans are now "regulated" in terms of coverage and cost.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
It still could be. For example, DS's wife goes into the exchange with the subsidy and would likely do better than $600/mo.

So she's better off/the same/very slightly worse off, while the middle class subsidizes her.

And her company pockets the savings on paying for the "benefits" they're offering her, right?


Sure, though I don't know how that plays into the whole "if you have 50+ employees, you need to offer an affordable plan" thing.

Just because a plan is deemed affordable, doesn't mean the employee can afford it. That's the situation here, right?


Seems to be. Though, again, I don't know, but can only assume that company plans are now "regulated" in terms of coverage and cost.

But the level they're regulated to doesn't really make sane checks against the wages they're offered for. That was my whole point.

And they were designed to NOT make sane checks, because the ultimate goal of the legislation was to force people onto the exchanges, where they'd qualify for subsidies.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
...because the ultimate goal of the legislation was to force people onto the exchanges, where they'd qualify for subsidies.


This, ultimately.

I've been mentioning it since the bill was written. Either through wide-ranging stupidity or malicious, ideological design this law will drive people off employer insurance and into the "exchanges."

Many of which would be run by the feds, and eventually probably all by the feds. Suddenly.... we're approaching Canada's system. Eventually, they could then nationalize the exchanges "hey, we're running them anyway and making them national will help 'cut costs'."

Bingo, single payer. Probably a 10-15 year time horizon, depending on how fast Medicare and the state-run exchanges go under.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:05 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
I've been mentioning it since the bill was written. Either through wide-ranging stupidity or malicious, ideological design this law will drive people off employer insurance and into the "exchanges."


And when this starts is when the rest of us get screwed as the government makes it prohibitively more expensive for employers to provide health coverage.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:29 pm 
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/snark on

Nitefox,

it is incredibly insensitive and racist of you to post his own words and expect them to mean anything. You are an affluent white person who has no clue what ordeals the false messiah has had to endure.

/snark off

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:42 pm 
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I'll just leave this here...

You can thank me later.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:16 am 
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Looks like she is straining hard to pass that stool sample! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Stupid **** lack of the goddamned rule of law in this goddamned country. This **** is retarded at this point. Literally, figuratively, and in all ways retarded.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:04 pm 
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New CBO report:

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Health-care law will prompt over 2 million to quit jobs or cut hours, a CBO report says

By Zachary A. Goldfarb and Amy Goldstein, Published: February 4 E-mail the writers

More than 2 million Americans who would otherwise rely on a job for health insurance will quit working, reduce their hours or stop looking for employment because of new health benefits available under the Affordable Care Act, congressional budget analysts said Tuesday.

The findings from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office revived a fierce debate about the impact President Obama’s signature health-care program will have on the U.S. economy.

The White House scrambled to defend the law, which has bedeviled Obama since its 2010 passage, arguing that the report shows it will work as planned, freeing people to care for their children, retire early or start their own businesses without worrying about health coverage.

“The Affordable Care Act today, right now, is helping labor markets, is helping businesses and is helping jobs,” said Jason Furman, the president’s chief economist.

But Republicans hailed the report as fresh evidence that the law will decimate the American workforce, encouraging people to forgo private employment in favor of taxpayer handouts.

“Today’s CBO report gives a sobering outlook on our economy,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) said in a statement. “It confirms what we’ve known all along: The health care law is having a tremendously negative impact on economic growth.”

The report raises new questions about the health-care law just as some Republicans are again looking for concessions related to the Affordable Care Act in exchange for an agreement to raise the federal debt limit. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew has urged quick action on the debt limit — with no concessions or negotiations — saying he could run out of cash to pay the nation’s bills by the end of this month.

Meanwhile, the health-care law promises to be a major issue in midterm congressional elections this fall, with Republicans looking to bludgeon Democrats over the program’s botched launch and Democrats hoping to highlight the millions of Americans who have gained coverage.

On Tuesday, few Democrats publicly defended the law, a sign that lawmakers recognize its vulnerability. In its report, the CBO said severe technical problems during the October rollout of the HealthCare.gov Web site will sharply curtail enrollment this year.

In its assessment of the law’s impact on the job market, the agency had bad news for both political parties. In an implicit rebuke of GOP talking points, the CBO said that there was little evidence the health-care law is affecting employment and that businesses are not expected to significantly reduce head count or hours as a result of the law.

But the report also contained a setback for the White House. The CBO predicts that the economy will have the equivalent of 2.3 million fewer full-time workers by 2021 as a result of the law — nearly three times previous estimates.

After obtaining coverage under the health-care law, some workers will choose to forgo employment, the report said, while others will voluntarily reduce their hours. That is because insurance subsidies under the law become less generous as income rises, so workers will have less incentive to work more or at all.

The design of the subsidies — like many programs in the social safety net — represents “an implicit tax on additional work,” CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said.

The CBO attributed the decline in workforce participation primarily to this effect. But there were other, less important causes, too, including the likelihood that some employers will cut people’s hours, hire fewer workers or offer lower wages to new workers to avoid or compensate for a new fine on employers that do not offer insurance to employees who work more than 30 hours a week.

While the CBO’s assessment of the law’s impact on the labor market generated the most political heat, budget analysts also provided significant updates on the Affordable Care Act’s effects on health coverage.

The agency predicted that 6 million Americans will have bought private health plans through the new insurance exchanges by the March 31 deadline for obtaining coverage this year, while 8 million low-income people will have enrolled in Medicaid. Both figures are off by 1 million people compared with previous CBO forecasts.

But enrollment will pick up within a few years, the CBO said, forecasting that enrollment in the marketplaces’ health plans will eventually hover between 24 million and 25 million, while 12 million to 13 million people will be covered through Medicaid and CHIP, the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

Despite the glitches, the CBO said, 86 percent of American citizens and legal residents younger than 65 will have health insurance this year, up from 82 percent in 2013. And that figure is expected to continue rising, topping out at 92 percent in 2017.

The Obama administration has not produced its own enrollment forecasts for coverage under the law, one of the president’s main domestic achievements. But internally and in public forums, the administration’s top health officials have for months been using the 7 million estimate that the CBO issued in May.

Asked Tuesday whether it was a problem that fewer people are now expected to have insurance this year, White House press secretary Jay Carney did not answer directly but said, “We’re confident we’re going to have a substantial number of Americans covered both through the exchanges and through expansion of Medicaid.”

Given the hardware and software defects in HealthCare.gov that thwarted many consumers who tried to sign up this fall, Carney said, the impact on enrollment is “certainly not as severe as a lot of our critics hoped and expected.”

On Jan. 24, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced that about 3 million people had signed up for private health plans through the federal and state exchanges. The number who have enrolled is not the same as the number who have become insured; people are covered once they pay their first month’s premium, and administration officials have declined to say how many have paid.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/cbo-botched-health-care-law-rollout-will-reduce-signups-by-1-million-people/2014/02/04/c78577d0-8dac-11e3-98ab-fe5228217bd1_story.html

A lot of this is somewhat obvious, but the scope seems substantially increased from previous CBO estimates. More bad news for the program.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
A lot of this is somewhat obvious, but the scope seems substantially increased from previous CBO estimates. More bad news for the program.

I'd say it is better than expected news for the program. More people subsidized to work less means more people on the dole which means more liberal voters.

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