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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Sure, preventing war is easier, but IF war, then what level of capability is justifiable?


In that case, as much capability as we can afford without either increasing it so much that other countries feel threatened and begin an arms race thereby spiraling costs and capabilities upward or go for a first strike out of desperation, or being simply economically infeasible in and of itself. This is why I favor ending our current wars, and transitioning to a purely strategic force that would have a smaller active Army (although larger than in 2003) with 60-65% of land forces being Reserves and NG, as well as eliminating redundant commands that don't command anything other than think tanks and contractors.


I like this. Do you know the approximate cost for active versus reserve units? What's the training/effectiveness gap between them? Why 65%? Is that a toss-out or is there a basis for this?

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Nonproliferation should also be disavowed; other countries that want nukes should understand they can have them, but if they start going crazy with building more, then our stated lvel of deterrence may have to go up, as may that of other nuclear powers.


I tend to lean this way, but there are some seriously unstable countries out there. Not sure if I can swallow this one.

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In any case, the level of capabilities that is justifiable is, basically, enough that A) there is no reason to think deterrence will fail B) if it does fail against the most powerful possible adversary, we can destroy sufficient enemy weapons and stop sufficient incoming ones to survive as an intact nation and begin meaningful recovery. If it fails against a weaker adversary, we should be able to utterly destroy that nation as an organized society in order to strengthen deterrence in the future. Exactly what systems and how many this means depends a great deal on at what point in time you mean, and would be a very lengthy discussion.


Seems like reasonable goals, and of course, the level and types of systems would not be stagnant, but would depend on current threats at any time.

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This is not limited exclusively to nuclear weapons. I don't think our use of them should be tied specifically to enemy use of them. Rather, our philosophy should be "if they aren't a threat, we don't need to be there. If they become a threat, they don't need to be there" and we remain ready to make them not there at any time.


I question the practicality of this.

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Seems like a reasonable minimum goal. Personally I'd like to bump our goal up just a smidge above "survivable".


I would like to bump it as far above surviveable as possible but I would caution against false precision. With a total lack of empirical experience in such attacks and the somewhat vague notion of what is and isn't survivable we can only roughly estimate where "surviveable" is. If I had to give one criteria, I would say that 70% of our electrical power plants need to survive. I won't go into a lengthy explaination of why since I'm sure you already understand and in any case this criteria is simply to give an idea of where that level is. From my understanding complex systems are catastrophically damaged somewhere between 60 and 70% This is not a matter of "At 71% things are hunky dory, and 69% we're ****."


Wouldn't it be more likely that we would have 100% failure in regions and 0% failure in others? (depending on where the detonations occur) Does an average of 70% matter much?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
I like this. Do you know the approximate cost for active versus reserve units? What's the training/effectiveness gap between them? Why 65%? Is that a toss-out or is there a basis for this?


The training-effectiveness gap is a matter of huge contention. I would contend that right now, most reserve/NG units are closer to the effectiveness of active duty units than at most points in history due to heavy deployments giving people experience, but that depends heavily on the unit, where it is in its deployment cycle, and other factors. Active duty people might have a different opinion and I would say that anything you might read on the subject you should watch carefully for an agenda. There's a lot of emotional investment in that topic.

The basis for the 65% is on an average of one Brigade Combat Team per state for the national guard (note that's an average; different states can support different sizes) which is, as I understand it the current endstate for the NG. The other 50 Brigade Combat Teams would be 15 Reserve and 35 active; of which 6 would be independant brigades/cavalry regiments and 29 would be divisional. I have this entire force structure worked out in my head but not all down on paper yet. Suffice to say this only addresses maneuver units, but I would change the structure of the NG units for increased ABM/air defense capability in the form of PAC-2/3, THAAD, or SM-3 so that each state would ahve at a bare minimum one battery defending it. A lot of ancillary capability desinged to sustain a WWII years-long conflict or counterinsurgency would be scrapped to cover the cost.

The basic goal with the active Army would be to be able to put 3 heavy divisions (9 Brigades) in any given theater with 3 weeks notice and 3 more each following 3 weeks. Obviously not all the active Brigades would be heavy, so the Reserves would come next, then the NG. The idea is that in the time it takes to get to the National Guard, the conflict is essentially over.

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Nonproliferation should also be disavowed; other countries that want nukes should understand they can have them, but if they start going crazy with building more, then our stated lvel of deterrence may have to go up, as may that of other nuclear powers.


I tend to lean this way, but there are some seriously unstable countries out there. Not sure if I can swallow this one.


I don't really see that many unstable countries will be able to get nukes. Those that have or may have (Iran, Pakistan) really just have unstable areas. Even if they do I don't see them being able to catch up in delivery capability and numbers. Ok so chilimacistan can fling 4 ICBMs with 1 warhead at us. That's why we want at least a battery of ABM in each state, plus the extra larger states will have and national-level defenses. We can probably deal with that, and even if one gets through we can survive as a nation. It will go bad for chilimacistan though. There's a difference between unstble and completely suicidal or irrational.

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Seems like reasonable goals, and of course, the level and types of systems would not be stagnant, but would depend on current threats at any time.


Exactly.

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I question the practicality of this.


In what regard? Politically? Yes, politically it is unlikely to be so clear-cut even if we move in this direction. Them's the breaks I'm afraid.

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Wouldn't it be more likely that we would have 100% failure in regions and 0% failure in others? (depending on where the detonations occur) Does an average of 70% matter much?


That's a real possibility, but then the intact regions can help the seriously damaged ones recover. Like I said, it's a very hasty spot-on-the-map estimate. Don't read much into it. I picked it only because its easy to understand the cascading failure effects of losing the electrical grid.

Depending on the nature of the attack damage could be distributed fairly evenly, or it might be highly concentrated.

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