The Glade 4.0

That would likelyviolate Posse Comitatus sicne the military would be policing citizens, the military doesn't do border security - there is a domestic police group that does. Aside from that, you start up a collection fund and pay for it.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The thing I am most amazed by, and by that I mean not amazed at all, is the number of very serious republicans on my TeeVee that suddenly hate America. They are clearly offering aid and comfort to our enemies by criticizing the president in this time of crisis. Well, according to their own seemingly forgotten or conveniently overlooked standards, anyway.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Much like you with that post, they are just carrying forward baggage from other areas.

After all the yelling you did about Bush and how he should be removed from office during another time of crisis.. This comment alone proclaims you Hypocrite of the year. And is rather douchebaggy. People kept saying this same thing when Bush was in office but then came your screams and cries of foul and how Bush should be punished regardless of the crisis.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I might agree with you if Obama understood this is a war, but he can't even bring himself to recognize that it is. Seemingly, in his eyes this is nothing more than a criminal act. He can justly be criticized for that, and should be.

The Posse Comitatus Act is law, not Constitution, and the Coast Guard has an exemption anyways. Add another exemption, and use the Army and/or Air Force, or a subdivision thereof, to enforce border security in a similar role to that of the Coast Guard. Border Security would include air traffic in and out of country.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Do you disagree that Posse Comitatus is good law?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Whether it's good law or not, Congress can authorize the use of the Federal military for law enforcement at any time. Posse Comitatus specifically allows it, and even if it didn't, all Congress would need to do is pass an ammendment giving itself that power. It also doesn't apply to the National Guard or the Coast Guard in any case.

The only thing Posse Comitatus prevents is the President or other members of the executive branch from using the Federal military for law enforcement without Congressional authorization.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Do you disagree that the Coast Guard is an invaluable resource in protecting our borders and security?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Do you really need to ask that of Elmo?


I'd merely amend Kaffis' point of view from "military" to "US Border Patrol Agency."

I'd amend the whole "very few airports" or whatever to "significant international airports."

Finally, I'd be cool with the suggestion as well only if it were concurrent a reduction in on-flight restrictions; in other words, do the security on the ground and do it well so people in the air don't have to be so heavily inconvenienced.

Also, stop stealing from people.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

That's my point, DFK! I want to establish isolated jumping-off points and eliminate international airports that are also major domestic travel hubs and nearby domestic infrastructure and citizens. Instead of taking your flight from Topeka (do they have an airport? Making this up as I go along) to JFK to London (and vice versa), you take your flight from Topeka to Ellis Island-analogue to London. Ellis Island-analogue can be outside domestic airspace and provide a buffer to things that we care of on a national security level -- population centers, tall buildings, military targets. This also makes target identification easier; if something comes from outside our airspace and bypasses Ellis Island 2.0, we shoot it down -- it's either been hijacked and is looking for a skyscraper to fly into, or it's a military target in and of itself.

As for the rest of your post, I'm fine with that, so long as we hold our Border Patrol Agency to military standards of training and equipment. The TSA is a joke, as I fear anything government-administered outside of the military is doomed to be. If this means expanding the Coast Guard and renaming it to the Border Patrol, fine. If this means creating a new arm of the military, fine. But renaming the TSA is not fine; trying to save their shitty training, policies, and bureaucracy would be more resource-intensive than starting a new organization with the right leadership, mindset, and standards from the ground up.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

So they just take a 747 in JFK thats fully loaded with fuel to go to Hawaii instead.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

See, but that means that they have to come in on our own airports, which are presumably screening to the standard we expect and require. That also means they need to purchase their supplies here, they need to get their guys into the country (through our military security), or they need to recruit domestically.

All of this makes it easier for us to target early and stop with the appropriate agencies, and before it becomes a threat to our national security.

9/11 was executed with razor blades through pre-9/11 domestic security.

Christmas Eve was attempted with a *bomb* that made it through foreign security.

Tell me which one is more trustworthy and safe?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Except that when we have security tests of our airports the standard passing rate is 20%.

Foreign security as in Albania compared with Israel? - I'll trust Israeli security more than US.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Picking Israel is not exactly addressing the point though, as Israel is known for its exceedingly high level of attention to security matters. They are not representative of foriegn nations in general.

I'd also be very careful withthe "pass rates" for airport security. Any sort of government inspection invariably spends a great deal of time inspecting memorandums, books, records, and such, often which serve no direct purpose in the inspected area. They only serve to establish administrative matters in the area in question which, while important, aren't the real meat of the issue. Without knowing what the standards are and how the airports were graded, 20% passing doesn't tell us a lot. 20% passing might mean that the standards are unrealistic, that they focus on irrelevancies or any number of things. 20% also might be very generous, because airports really suck. It might also be a very good overall number, but we really don't know without the details.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

DE, I'm only talking about attempts to smuggle in devices and weapons.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Ok.. the points still stand. Government security inspections are pretty meaningless without the raw data. The tail tends to wag the dog rather badly.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I would guess this is the case in most areas of Government Oversight. They tend to micromanage details they have no business doing so.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

If nothing else, the new security is keeping us all safe from the threat of bottled honey.

...

So, when the shoe bomber was handled in exactly the same manner, with normal civil law enforcement, that was Bush not understanding this was a war? Your statement is foolish on it's face, Bery. Just because he's not running around screaming "War on Terrah" every other day to keep everyone pissing themselves doesn't mean he does not understand the gravity of the situation.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

No doubt he had some arm behind that shoe, but to call that throw a "bomb" is stretching it quite a bit Monte.

I think Monte's talking about this guy. Situation seems similar, terrorist dumbass who tried to blow up a plane but failed.

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I'm not talking about details they have no buisness worrying about, I'm talking about details that are given excessive importance compared to their actual impact. For example, having memorandums re-signed at some interval, often yearly, is part and parcel of any government inspection I've ever seen, military or otherwise, whether they need it or not. The intent is to see that responsibilities are properly assigned, but if the responsibilities are being physically completed they're obviosly assigned to someone who knows to do them. Yet it's quite possible to fail for enough **** memos even if the actual security (or whatever) is squared away.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Data:
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Summary_Report.pdf

The TSA's own report indicates that private security firms detected average of 3x more attempts to smuggle weapons than government firms in live attempts.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

My point is still valid. The government overseeing certain matters through various agencies or committees is hardly the same thing as micromanaging it. Come work in the commercial nuclear industry. They don't just say "be safe". They've set up an entire agency which in turn influences other agencies (which aren't even technically government sanctioned) to tell you exactly what is considered safe. Except, instead of helping you be safe, they write regulatory guides in a vague way such that the fault is always the operator's no matter what happens. The levels of redundancy and caution are overkill.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones