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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:14 am 
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Khross wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Also, English degrees are the most common? Really? The two 3000-level English classes I had to take in college were the hardest classes I took. None of my science courses ever required me to produce a document in a week's time where fifty citations was the minimum to not fail.
Your English classes did not have such a requirement either. Fifty citations is between 4 and 5 times the average required for a peer reviewed article published in the PMLA. So, unless you were simply writing literature reviews, I'm going to suggest this comment is a bit exaggerated.


Actually, that was exactly what it was. It was a writing in the sciences class and we had to do our own review of a journal article.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:23 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Anyone else think that the bottom line here is the bottom line; that really this is just a way to generate more money for the school district and actually has nothing to do with what are ostensibly its goals?


I can assure you the revenue isn't an issue for the community high school. Thr school is funded by property taxes, and is in one of the most affluent areas of the state.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:13 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Khross wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Also, English degrees are the most common? Really? The two 3000-level English classes I had to take in college were the hardest classes I took. None of my science courses ever required me to produce a document in a week's time where fifty citations was the minimum to not fail.
Your English classes did not have such a requirement either. Fifty citations is between 4 and 5 times the average required for a peer reviewed article published in the PMLA. So, unless you were simply writing literature reviews, I'm going to suggest this comment is a bit exaggerated.


Actually, that was exactly what it was. It was a writing in the sciences class and we had to do our own review of a journal article.
A review of a single journal article requires one source: the journal article itself. A "Review of the Literature" on a given topic requires everything written about that topic in the last 7 years and all seminal articles/publications ever written about that topic since it first appeared.

Of course, you just take multiple citations from a single source, but I don't think you mean actual citations. I think you mean sources, in which case I still say, "Bullshit."

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:19 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
I think you might be misinterpreting Khross' critique, Aizle. If I understand correctly, his point is that overall education policy in this country has been deliberately aimed at increasing the percentage of the population that attends college (e.g. college-prep curricula at the local level; funding of bachelor degree-granting schools rather than vocational schools at the state level; financial aid/loans at the federal level; etc.). He believes that's misguided because, among other things, it: (i) results in lower academic standards for attaining a college degree; (ii) encourages many people to go to college who would actually be better off doing something else; and (iii) thereby both raises the cost of getting a degree and devalues the employment advantages of having it for those who actually are suited to college.


I'm familiar with Khross' arguments on this subject.

(i) I don't see any evidence of that happening in the major accredited schools. If there's evidence out there, please link it.
(ii) Possible, but I thought that folks here generally felt that people should be held accountable for their own actions.
(iii) I'm not sure that I buy that having more students somehow increases overall cost for schooling. In most every business that I know, increasing production allows you to be able to reduce costs. There is perhaps some argument for devaluing the employment advantages of a degree by having more of them around, but I'm not convinced that the detriment there outweights the overall benefits of having a more educated public.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:32 am 
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Aizle wrote:
(i) I don't see any evidence of that happening in the major accredited schools. If there's evidence out there, please link it.
I've linked plenty of empirical evidence on this in the past, only to be met with summary dismissals of the sources and the argument. I'm not sure I'm inclined to do it again. And, unfortunately, anything truly useful that I can provide you requires access to an academic library. Journal studies just aren't that available to non-paying readers in the internet world.
Aizle wrote:
(ii) Possible, but I thought that folks here generally felt that people should be held accountable for their own actions.
Except, going to college when you are not economically, psychologically, or academically prepared has very little responsibility burden. You cannot provide recompense for your drain on the system.
Aizle wrote:
(iii) I'm not sure that I buy that having more students somehow increases overall cost for schooling. In most every business that I know, increasing production allows you to be able to reduce costs. There is perhaps some argument for devaluing the employment advantages of a degree by having more of them around, but I'm not convinced that the detriment there outweights the overall benefits of having a more educated public.
Eh, you can't increase supply to meet demand, since education requires placing a burden on qualified people. You have two choices, and this covers part of the problem with the first point: either you somehow find a way to produce more qualified instructors, or you lower the qualifications necessary for instructors. Throwing 600 students in a lecture is simply not feasible for the majority of subjects. And, to that end, our public isn't more educated. Declining Standardized Test scores, standards, and college acceptance minimums indicate that increasing access to universities has no net positive effect on baseline education in the country. And you can look at the effect it's had on hiring minimums ...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:22 am 
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You can practice your way to higher SAT scores, sure, but it's still mostly talent. You're not going to improve your scores much, typically (the exception to this are smart people that can't take tests worth a ****).

Conversely, working your *** off with little talent can improve your grades a ton.


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