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Thieves gotta thieve. https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10486 |
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Author: | Müs [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Thieves gotta thieve. |
Walmart shelves in Springhill, Mansfield, cleared in EBT glitch http://www.ksla.com/story/23679489/walm ... ebt-glitch Quote: Shelves in Walmart stores in Springhill and Mansfield, LA were reportedly cleared Saturday night, when the stores allowed purchases on EBT cards even though they were not showing limits.
The chaos that followed ultimately required intervention from local police, and left behind numerous carts filled to overflowing, apparently abandoned when the glitch-spurred shopping frenzy ended. Springhill Police Chief Will Lynd confirms they were called in to help the employees at Walmart because there were so many people clearing off the shelves. He says Walmart was so packed, "It was worse than any black Friday" that he's ever seen. Lynd explained the cards weren't showing limits and they called corporate Walmart, whose spokesman said to let the people use the cards anyway. From 7 to 9 p.m., people were loading up their carts, but when the cards began showing limits again around 9, one woman was detained because she rang up a bill of $700.00 and only had .49 on her card. She was held by police until corporate Walmart said they wouldn't press charges if she left the food. Lynd says at 9 p.m., when the cards came back online and it was announced over the loud speaker, people just left their carts full of food in the aisles and left. "Just about everything is gone, I've never seen it in that condition," said Mansfield Walmart customer Anthony Fuller. Walmart employees could still be seen putting food from the carts away as late as Sunday afternoon. "I was just thinking, I'm so glad my mom doesn't work here [Walmart] anymore, that's the only thing I could think about, those employees working, that would have to restock all that stuff," said O.J Evans who took cell phone video of the overflowing shopping carts at the Mansfield Walmart. Evans believes it was natural human reaction that led people to fill up their carts during the glitch, but Walmart shoppers Stan and Judy Garcia feel very differently. "That's plain theft, that's stealing that's all I got to say about it," said Garcia. Lynd says contrary to rumors, nobody was unruly or arrested and they were mainly there to help prevent shoplifting and theft. A dispatcher for Mansfield police also confirms officers were called in for crowd control at the Mansfield Walmart. She said the shelves were cleared out, forcing Walmart to stop selling food at 9 p.m. There were no arrests. There was, however, a huge mess left behind. Pictures and videos obtained by KSLA News 12 show aisles packed with shoppers emptying the shelves in Springhill. Another video shows what appear to be at least dozens of overflowing carts left abandoned in the aisles at the Mansfield store, against the backdrop of emptied shelves in the meat department. It all happened at the end of a day in which the EBT system went down in several states, including Louisiana. Xerox, a vendor for the EBT system, experienced a power outage while conducting a routine backup test in one of the company's locations. While the system was back up Saturday night, it appears that it was not functioning entirely properly in some areas. Kayla Whaling, a spokesperson for Walmart, tells KSLA News 12 that the company was "fully engaged and monitoring the situation and transactions during the outage." "We did make the decision to continue to accept EBT cards (and purchases on WIC and SNAP) during the outage so that they could get food for their families." Asked whether Walmart would be taking the loss on any food purchased on the cards that did not show limits, or on the perishable food left behind in carts, Whaling would only say that "we monitored transactions during the outage." A spokesperson for the Louisiana Department of Children and Family Services says they take all allegations of potential fraud seriously, they are aware of the reports and they will be investigating. According to a notice posted on the LA DSFS website on Saturday: "While transactional systems maintained by DCFS contractors may have been impacted by today's outage, the systems that DCFS uses to track EBT card usage and identify fraud were still in place. DCFS vigorously investigates all fraud claims. Anyone suspected of fraudulently using public assistance benefits are investigated and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The public is encouraged to report cases of suspected SNAP fraud by calling the DCFS toll-free hotline at 1-888-LAHELP-U and selecting option 7 from the main menu or by visiting www.dcfs.la.gov/ReportFraud. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:36 pm ] |
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I don't understand people. |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:04 pm ] |
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Makes perfect sense to those that loaded up. EBT card gives you free stuff monthly, the fact that you could get as much free stuff as you want because of the system failure means nothing when it was free anyway. Now if it went the other way and showed 0 balance... |
Author: | Micheal [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:22 pm ] |
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I would argue, but there are people like that out there. Obviously. |
Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:34 pm ] |
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Funny thing is, early on, some people were trying to pass this off as the shutdown's fault and that people were not getting their EBT benefits. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Vindicarre wrote: Makes perfect sense to those that loaded up. EBT card gives you Not gonna deny that the mentality you described is common. However, I think it's worth bearing in mind that the motivation suggested by my revisions was almost certainly also involved in this case. Not that that makes it right or excusable, of course. Just a little harder for me to get super judgy about people for whom the opportunity to get a bunch of free food is a big deal. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Vindicarre wrote: Makes perfect sense to those that loaded up. EBT card gives you Not gonna deny that the mentality you described is common. However, I think it's worth bearing in mind that the motivation suggested by my revisions was almost certainly also involved in this case. Actually, the claims Vindicarre made are self evident, but yours require citation. If you're going to pull a "there, I fixed that for ya", you have to set a higher standard. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:41 pm ] |
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Not sure why Vind's theory as to their motivations is any more self-evident than mine.... |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Not sure why Vind's theory as to their motivations is any more self-evident than mine.... Do you agree that they are thieves? |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:47 pm ] |
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I do. |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: you have no other source of food money. RangerDave wrote: Not sure why Vind's theory as to their motivations is any more self-evident than mine.... Because in 5 seconds I found other sources of food money in the exact locations this occurred: http://www.mclouisiana.com/careers/jobs ... l&type=all http://www.mclouisiana.com/careers/jobs ... d&type=all |
Author: | Taskiss [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Not sure why Vind's theory as to their motivations is any more self-evident than mine.... Really? You want to wiggle out of it like that? You "corrected" certain statements he made and you can't see that the stuff you corrected were facts, and you substituted liberal excuses instead? I'd go all line item on you, but you and I both know you're just playing games. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:55 pm ] |
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*sigh* I hate this board sometimes. Look, my point is that when there's a frenzy of people literally stealing food, it probably says something about their economic circumstances in addition to whatever it says about their morality. Does anyone really disagree with that? I mean, for all the white collar fraud that occurs, you don't see a lot of bankers ripping off the Walmart grocery department. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Taskiss wrote: You "corrected" certain statements he made and you can't see that the stuff you corrected were facts, and you substituted liberal excuses instead? I wasn't trying to "correct" Vind's statement or do an obnoxious "fixed that for ya" thing, but I can see how it might read that way. In any event, Vind's statement wasn't just factual. It argued that, for the people in the article, getting free stuff via welfare was equivalent to getting free stuff via stealing, and that equivalence is what explained their actions here. My point was that something other than that alleged equivalence might also be an explanatory factor. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: *sigh* I hate this board sometimes. Look, my point is that when there's a frenzy of people literally stealing food, it probably says something about their economic circumstances in addition to whatever it says about their morality. Does anyone really disagree with that? I mean, for all the white collar fraud that occurs, you don't see a lot of bankers ripping off the Walmart grocery department. You mistake me for someone that cares. I was addressing the technical points of your post. Period. No more, no less. Vindicarre said "free stuff", etc, is free, you can't argue the point...unless you claim that EBT cards aren't free.. and that's the point of my post. Heck, I never even HEARD of EBT cards, so as far as I know, they're NOT free. However, even if they're not, correcting someone needs to be cited or you're just doing a "I know you are, but what am " kinda game. Correcting someone requires someone to "back it up or shut it up", so to speak. And then, at the point where you responded to my post, you felt the need to spin it. You tried to switch the topic to include the "motive"... what the heck, I was talking about your changes to his post, when did motive come into it? Ah, it came in 'cause you can't defend your changes, and now you're playing martyr. And you're the one that hates this board? Know thyself, RD. Oh, and I still don't know what EBT cards are... I assume some sort of welfare method, but I don't care enough to even google it. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Taskiss wrote: You "corrected" certain statements he made and you can't see that the stuff you corrected were facts, and you substituted liberal excuses instead? I wasn't trying to "correct" Vind's statement or do an obnoxious "fixed that for ya" thing, but I can see how it might read that way. In any event, Vind's statement wasn't just factual. It argued that, for the people in the article, getting free stuff via welfare was equivalent to getting free stuff via stealing, and that equivalence is what explained their actions here. My point was that something other than that alleged equivalence might also be an explanatory factor. I will accept that. And, just FYI - I don't care what folks's opinions are, I respect them as long as (I believe) they're honest about them. I might argue and even present my own opinions. I do find the "fixed that for ya" thing obnoxious, though. That's how I read your post, and yeah, I was annoyed. I don't like dishonesty though. That, plus I'm an old grouch (ask anyone). It tends to get ugly at that point. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: *sigh* I hate this board sometimes. Look, my point is that when there's a frenzy of people literally stealing food, it probably says something about their economic circumstances in addition to whatever it says about their morality. Does anyone really disagree with that? I mean, for all the white collar fraud that occurs, you don't see a lot of bankers ripping off the Walmart grocery department. All it really says is that they aren't bankers or something similar. These people aren't stealing food because they don't have enough to eat, they're stealing food so they can have extra. I have NCOs at my reserve unit, people that make a decent living, and I've heard them talk about food stamps and how great they used to be back when you got change in actual money for them; so that you could go buy other stuff. Food stamps have never been a program limited to people that truly won't eat without them; they're a supplemental income in the form of food so that everyone can eat whatever they want. Whether it says something about their economic circumstances is irrelevant. Everyone doesn't need to be in the same circumstances. Practically no one has "no other source of food money", they have "not as much as they want." Contrary to the asinine claims on billboards, hunger is not a problem in this country for anyone that makes an effort to prioritize needs over wants. Kids that don't eat, don't eat because their parents don't give a ****. |
Author: | Corolinth [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Understand that the liberal feels that people who produce food are morally obligated to provide it to other human beings because those humans are hungry, and that people who practice medicine are morally obligated to provide medical assistance to other human beings because those humans are sick or hurt. The philosophical foundation of the liberal ideology is that those who have the ability to do something are obligated to perform that task for everyone who lacks that ability. In the United States in particular, because we have been crying about slavery for the past hundred and fifty years, the American liberal is in denial about the philosophical foundation of his or her ideals. They do not want to come to terms with the fact that they support slavery. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: Understand that the liberal feels that people who produce food are morally obligated to provide it to other human beings because those humans are hungry, and that people who practice medicine are morally obligated to provide medical assistance to other human beings because those humans are sick or hurt. The philosophical foundation of the liberal ideology is that those who have the ability to do something are obligated to perform that task for everyone who lacks that ability. In the United States in particular, because we have been crying about slavery for the past hundred and fifty years, the American liberal is in denial about the philosophical foundation of his or her ideals. They do not want to come to terms with the fact that they support slavery. There is nothing wrong with the idea that one has a moral obligation to provide food or medicine to those in need. In that regard, liberals are correct, and in agreement with the religious people they despise. The difference, and the problem with liberals is that the the liberal feels it should also be a legal obligation, while the religious person feels it is the duty of the church and its congregation with no legal compulsion - which is the case, regardless of how much religious people may appear to focus on other things. |
Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
RangerDave wrote: *sigh* I hate this board sometimes. Look, my point is that when there's a frenzy of people literally stealing food, it probably says something about their economic circumstances in addition to whatever it says about their morality. Does anyone really disagree with that? I mean, for all the white collar fraud that occurs, you don't see a lot of bankers ripping off the Walmart grocery department. I disagree. If they could have put flat screens and towels on their EBT, they may have done that too. We don't know. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thieves gotta thieve. |
I know it's great to hate on the poor thieves and all, but the only thing demonstrated here is poor planning in the maintenance of the EBT system. Do you think that if Armani or Rolex suddenly had a credit-card processing glitch where you could buy stuff and not have the charge show up on your card that it would be any different? |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:09 am ] |
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Uh.. yes. |
Author: | Amanar [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:12 am ] |
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If a large investment firm tried to sell a bunch of stock for $100 a share, but someone typed it in wrong and they put it on the market at $1 a share, would people take advantage of it? You could argue that's more impersonal I guess, but even so, do you think people would voluntarily trade back after they found out it was an error? I'm not saying what they did here was right by any means, but I don't think this kind of behavior is somehow unique to those receiving welfare. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thieves gotta thieve. |
That example really doesn't work though, because while people might be suspicious of the $1 stock price, they wouldn't know for sure it was an error, and they would still legitimately be spending their $1 on it. The company that sold it has to eat the loss; otherwise it would be too easy to play games with stock wherein any sale that doesn't work out well is called an "error". In this case, the people stealing are spending more of someone else's money than they're authorized to get someone else's goods. They aren't even putting in the equivalent of the trivial $1 investment. The issue here is that food stamps are a charity that's supposed to be there as a social safety net so poorer people have enough to eat, but many of those on it don't see it that way. They see it as an entitlement, hence why they're called entitlement programs, and that sense of entitlement extends to "I'm going to get as much of this stuff as I can because hey, why not?" Wealthy people may be just as dishonest, but because they're wealthy they're not receiving charity in the first place. They don't, therefore, engage in equivalent behavior because there isn't any. |
Author: | TheRiov [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:50 am ] |
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No, they have their own ways to defraud, extort, manipulate, etc. Short version. A subsection of the human population is little better than vermin. Rich or poor isn't the marker of a thief. (though it might be the marker of a successful thief) |
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